PTP Random Dubs III
Doubles · Apr - May 2015 · Escanaba, MI
The scoop
Well here is what happened yesterday. The group of disc golfers known as the smoking chains has sketchily went behind my back and created a doubles league based of my format on the same day same tim ...
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Well here is what happened yesterday. The group of disc golfers known as the smoking chains has sketchily went behind my back and created a doubles league based of my format on the same day same time and same place as this league..The way this group handled this was the sketchiest thing I've seen in my 10 years if disc golf..Apparently anyone can run a league..Austin who has never moved a stick nor donated a penny to the course is in charge of the other Tuesday league..From what I gather a few of the idiots were upset about a mandatory $5 league fee for custom hand made bag tags..In a doubles league, the people on top the leader board are those who go every week and are semi descent. With bag tags any person can potentially become number 1. No need to go every week if you can't make it..The format they are.running is $1 per person every week gets taken out and goes to the top 5 players at the end of the season..This is just putting more money back into Austin pockets..I will not be supporting any of there leagues and any event if they hold one..I would recommend the same. I am going to continue running this league until the end of the month. At that point club (906) will switch to a Tuesday travel league in Mrqt county. I will also continue running events and trying to grow the sport..Last year I held a canned good tourney at Pioneer trail..I raised over 150lbs of food that was donated.to the rock food.pantry, and raised $50 for the course..I have donated over 100hrs of labor out there and over $300 in money to the course..Support those who support disc golf..leave the rest to be bested. See you all TuesdaY
show 70 earlier comments
Tim Kopacz
May 13, 2015
What kind of custom bag tag? Ah, who cares, I'll buy one.
Tim Kopacz
May 13, 2015
For the past two years, and planned again this year, Marquette runs a singles league which pays out ...
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For the past two years, and planned again this year, Marquette runs a singles league which pays out the top 2-3 players, and then the best 2-3 players based on the scoring midpoint that week. Anyone has a chance to win the midpoint just based on how scores shake out, and you can't sandbag to win cuz you never know what the midpoint will be. We also keep stats of every player every week and develop a handicap rating. First year a portion of the entry fee each week went into a large pool for a year end skins match based on rank. Thus, the four lowest ranked players all played for $10 per hole just like the four highest ranked players. Last year they held a handicapped year ender where you essentially played against yourself. None of the top weekly players cashed in that event, and neither did the kid with a handicap of 38 (he was effecttively throwing a "7" even after 10 holes if I remember). It's too bad about the drama. There will always be haters and naysayers. I see it all the time, and all too often. Rise above, keep playing, skip the drama, have fun.
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
They way that they handled themselves tuesday was the worse performance i have ever seen in disc gol ...
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They way that they handled themselves tuesday was the worse performance i have ever seen in disc golf. That format is a solid one and makes it so its not a show up every week and be rewarded formual..I will be holding 2 more leagues there to close out the ace pool and the end of the month. A new tuesday travel league will be set-up first league will be june 2nd at powder mill at 6. we will rotate each week to different courses in mrqt county..A mix between singles and doubles
Tom Mannebach
May 13, 2015
bag tags r supposed to be optional. not mandatory. expecially when league host doesnt pay out for th ...
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bag tags r supposed to be optional. not mandatory. expecially when league host doesnt pay out for the tags like said that he would. then the next year to tell people that it is mandatory to buy one or u cant play in his league. well we just wanna play. no hard feelings
Tim Evans
May 13, 2015
Reminds me of when someone did that at Whitehall. Good Luck!
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
last year i charged $15 people got a disc and a mini..only 17 people purchased one..this left me wit ...
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last year i charged $15 people got a disc and a mini..only 17 people purchased one..this left me with roughly $80 cash i used for league party..I never said anything about #1 tag winning anything..People were pissed that they didnt so thats why i made them mandatory..So i had funds set aside to award prizes to the winners as well as doing a league party...I guess you guys feel that a disc and a mini for $15 isnt a good deal?
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Also there is ludington park and Besse park you guys could of held leagues at..to do it at the same time, the same place, and same formate without telling me is cowardly and disrespectful
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
For everyone reading this, this is a open forum so please feel free to comment as you see fit..Im open to all input and ideas
Tim Kopacz
May 13, 2015
My comment wasn't meant to disrespect your format, or weekly payouts. Just an alternative idea becau ...
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My comment wasn't meant to disrespect your format, or weekly payouts. Just an alternative idea because IMO the Scene leaderboards more reward those who simply play a lot, and aren't as meanigful with respect to the top players in the area or league (like you said JV). It's like a "feel-good" leaderboard simply for those who are able to play a lot of leagues and accumulate points. I always was in favor of a "Percent of Players Beat" scoring system for leagues, so you got 100% for a win no matter where and how many people. For everyone else at the league who isn't the top player, the formats I mentioned by paying out a "B-Pool" at the scoring midpoint, and running a league ender based on handicap, are just alternatives to level the playing feel and allow everyone to at least think they have a chance. The premise of the bag tags is that they are the "side bet" (for lack of a better word) during a league round, in which players can still compete and see how they truly stack up against the rest.
Tim Evans
May 13, 2015
Reminds me of when we had a lot of drama and BS at Whitehall. Good Luck!
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
@ Rob...if you think I was making profits off of league then you must be over medicated..I gave away ...
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@ Rob...if you think I was making profits off of league then you must be over medicated..I gave away a $12 ctp/LP for $10. that's me donating the extra to the players..here look at this club..they charge a mandatory $25 or you can't play..look they average 80 people a week. a mandatory fee is very common. it's a huge benefit to the recreational players as they have a chance at prizes each week. http://www.discgolfscene.com/leagues/WDG_2015_Summer_League
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
also just because I'm one if the better players in the yoop, and cash most every week doesn't mean I ...
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also just because I'm one if the better players in the yoop, and cash most every week doesn't mean I should be punished or called out for making money..I've done the time and my game has progressed to where most leagues I will likely be at the top..I'm not going to apologize for that
Tim Evans
May 13, 2015
Isn't it ironic? Good Luck!
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
also smoking chains forces players to pay the $1 each week to end of the year payouts to the top pla ...
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also smoking chains forces players to pay the $1 each week to end of the year payouts to the top players..that's over $20 a year they extort per basically each player..I was charging $5..That's way less then they charge..They should make that extra $1 optional
Tom Mannebach
May 13, 2015
i think a guy like 4x JV will be just fine hahahaha
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
I said my peace..I just wanted the players to understand that smoking chains is in fact charging a m ...
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I said my peace..I just wanted the players to understand that smoking chains is in fact charging a mandatory Fee, it's just basically hidden in the $6 weekly fee..Really not much different than I did it, I just was up front and brutally honest as to how and where the money would brake down to...It would be like me going to there league with $4 and saying I want in on everything, then being asked to leave because I don't have enough money.
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
4x will keep doing work yo..let's keep the comments rolling.
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
Doubles sucks :) leagues are a weekly thing unless you put in a ton of effort like Tim d ...
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Doubles sucks :) leagues are a weekly thing unless you put in a ton of effort like Tim did last year or Larry labound does for Kalamazoo. There isn't a league unless someone runs it. I am not opposed to paying a small fee if it's ran well. Anyways discgolf. Is not profitable I have paid out and given away, hours and tools and supplies building, supplies for leagues eg my badass ctp makers.... Any way I'm in the hole and it ain't a basket. Disc golf is fun and I hope this drama ends also that dude was a total tool in my one interaction with him. And if you are not looking to compete don't play in a competitive league. Maybe start your own with no money on the line
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
Payout out and given away and spent far more than I have ever taken in
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
but even a one time league fee of let's say 10 bucks for a well ran league is OK. I'm also cool with pay 2 play courses .
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
And the top 5 format with No handicapping etc and just using scenes setup is pretty much goin ...
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And the top 5 format with No handicapping etc and just using scenes setup is pretty much going to pay out who ever runs league as they will be there every week and probably a few of their close buddies
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Exactly..I figured with the tags, it would give it her players a chance at getting in on the year en ...
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Exactly..I figured with the tags, it would give it her players a chance at getting in on the year end prizes, as well as a league party where we play high low dubs fir the remainder of the league money..Its a good format, it's just tough to do it all at that low of money at the yr.end..Really $10 per person is best.
Corey Kieft
May 13, 2015
I see u and ur bro got paired up and won by 6 strokes maybe they got tired of u stacking the deck?
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
other players*
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Hey man it's random flip..that's the first time I was paired with him in all the league's we play..p ...
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Hey man it's random flip..that's the first time I was paired with him in all the league's we play..plus there wernt many people flipping..I prefer playing with beginners so they have a good.chance at getting paid.
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
That's a good point Qual. I asked Mike if he would rather I play Cali, he wanted the challenge, not ...
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That's a good point Qual. I asked Mike if he would rather I play Cali, he wanted the challenge, not to mention the extra drives each time on the red tees..ace pool was $117 if he hit it..it was worth it for him to try
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
I can beat Jamie and Jamie can beat me and my and Ryan were partners 2 weeks ago and we Didn't Cash .... Really no Way to cheat the flip hahaha oh the hate.
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
Ask Tim it's a ton of numbers to run a true league with handicap and all. You really Need a team one runs the league in person and one does the numbers.
Joshua N
May 13, 2015
we did the 1$ per person to end the year payout to get people to come every week or have a reason to ...
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we did the 1$ per person to end the year payout to get people to come every week or have a reason to do so.....and it was not hidden like you said Jamie so keep running your mouth over the a keyboard trying to make smoking chains look bad because all the locals are sick of Jamie Vincent's bullshit and thats what all this boils down to by whay im getting from everyone....than this whole stupid post just make things hundred time worse on everyone's thoughts of you!!!!!
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Nance that is your opinion and maybe you and a couple of your friends may be a little but hurt..I my ...
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Nance that is your opinion and maybe you and a couple of your friends may be a little but hurt..I my reputation is just fine and most everyone knows all I have done at ptp and other local courses..The way you your club handled that left a bad taste in most people mouth..trust me I've been talking to plenty of the players..I'm all about growing the game and the pdga
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
people just really wanna show up and play when they can, they shouldn't feel obligated to go just to ...
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people just really wanna show up and play when they can, they shouldn't feel obligated to go just to recoop there money..That's a no brainer. as Nate said, likely the ones who will get that money will be the people holding the league's and their cpl friends
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
This post is great and all the info should be on the table..This wouldn't of been a issue if smoking chains could of.handled it like men,not cowards
Tim Evans
May 13, 2015
Damn JV... Now yer gonna have to move to Canada! Good Luck!
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
@Tim, nope over to the west coast this winter..People get upset when a person keeps winning..People ...
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@Tim, nope over to the west coast this winter..People get upset when a person keeps winning..People also get.upset when their shown disrespect. .well the pdga loves me..I got them about 20 new members this year..That's growing the sport
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Not to mention I just put in a temporary course on the old air force base..The cost for materials wa ...
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Not to mention I just put in a temporary course on the old air force base..The cost for materials was roughly $300. plus the time to install it all..all out of my pocket..must be all that money I was making.g
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
went by it yesterday and seen 3 kids out playing..they were roughly 15 and having fun..I gave each of um a disc since they only had 2 for the three of them. now there set up..I'm a Ads hold
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Poophole*
Tim Evans
May 13, 2015
I'm confused... Anyway, good luck!
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
Oh and quite trying to make you league a social thing with parties etc... People who like to use league for social time hate social time. Just an observation
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
how's funabushi looking
Joshua N
May 13, 2015
cowards? only coward is you Jamie....just saying
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
how is that..Austin and u guys coulda let me know on here, like I'm letting people know on here..it's not personal and if ur taking it that way it's because u have done something wrong...Fly true
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
I don't always see eye to eye, get along with, agree with Jamie etc but I have to say he ran a gre ...
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I don't always see eye to eye, get along with, agree with Jamie etc but I have to say he ran a great event and I'm glad it was my Kids first real event experience. Now if I didn't. Like how his league was ran I would do my own on a different day time course etc. The actions that he is upset with are bs and only degrade the sport, the community and efforts to grow dg in the up. I can understand frustrations on both sides but the issue brought up was running another League at The same time same place.... And that I can say is bs.
nathan Simpson
May 13, 2015
So is ptp charging y'all fees for League?
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Nance is just talking to talk..I ain't worried about it..I guess he wants to be part of the conversa ...
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Nance is just talking to talk..I ain't worried about it..I guess he wants to be part of the conversation..I'm glad I don't gotta deal with the cpl chain smokers anymore..well now they will have better chances at being paid out...
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Exactly right Nate..it completely degrades disc golf in the yoop and I truly feel that things are on ...
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Exactly right Nate..it completely degrades disc golf in the yoop and I truly feel that things are only going to get worse at Pioneer trail park..the actions by a few will wreck it for all..and I wanted people to know how the smokers handled their business so people know.
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
there has been no official word about being charged..its speculation by a couple players
Tim Kopacz
May 13, 2015
So, gotta throw this out there. Disc Da UP just offered up a chance to form a regional organization ...
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So, gotta throw this out there. Disc Da UP just offered up a chance to form a regional organization where every club could have a seat at the table and we could work together, standardize, leverage, and really grow the sport. There wasn't much interest beyond the Iron Mountain and Range Gliders. We could work together and strive for a great, standardized, and meaningful UP series (kinda like Northern Waters Series). Most disc golfers wanna do things their way though. The problem with disc golf and leagues is our own, it's us the disc golfers who typically want want want and give very little. $300 that JV might have spent is MINISCULE compared to what I've donated, plus THOUSANDS of hours into building and maintenance since 2002! We could work together, that would be nice, I fear it's a far-fetched dream though.
Joshua N
May 13, 2015
no league charges but will charge 10% on any tournaments played their!!!! And ive done nothing wrong ...
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no league charges but will charge 10% on any tournaments played their!!!! And ive done nothing wrong here just highly pissed off because Jamie is now the biggest hypocrite I know trying to make smoking chains look bad saying we are taking mandatory money just like he was with our 1$ per person going towards end of year payouts.....which isn't same as him because we have sponsors every week giving free discs away and will have huge party and every dollar in our league is accounted for.....plus all our sponsor will always be on board.....and smoking chains will also be running at least 4 weekends for kids thats in stone at this time with over ten sponsors with that right now and only been working on that for ten days....smoking chains is nothing at what Jamie is trying to say.....should Austin done his league at different time YES but that was his call.....so Jamie making all these comments is just putting more fuel on his fire in delta county promise that!!!!
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Josh, Austin is part of smoking chains and nothing I have said was at all false. I just don't unders ...
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Josh, Austin is part of smoking chains and nothing I have said was at all false. I just don't understand how you can't realize that what you guys are.doing is charging a mandatory fee each league. it's no different than what I did, you guys just take more..But now all of a sudden you guys are holding events for teens (which I really hope isn't true) and your having a league party..hmmmm first I ever heard of any of that. I personally always donate back to the course after all events, and go out of my way to make them as fun as possible. Only had a couple complaints out of hundreds of people, I must be doing something right.
Jamie Vincent
May 13, 2015
Tim, that is a great idea..I personally will be leaving for the west coast this winter and will be d ...
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Tim, that is a great idea..I personally will be leaving for the west coast this winter and will be dissolving my current club..if for some reason I did wind up back here in the summer I will only be focusing on sanctioned tournaments..This is my last season running leagues.for awhile.
Joshua N
May 13, 2015
take ng more than you? we both take 1$ right? you give your misprint for ctps for the 1$ our money g ...
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take ng more than you? we both take 1$ right? you give your misprint for ctps for the 1$ our money goes towards pay out at end of year and than we will have party probably with steaks and deep fried turkey not cold hot dogs...but your more than welcome to not play rest of year and still come to the party JV..... snoking chains sunday league will for sure pay out every single dollar taking in and will prove it to anyone!:) all disc sponsored and not taking from the 5$ a week....
Jamie Vincent
May 14, 2015
Wow big words from a old cripple..didn't realize you had beef to..wasn't sure I ever did anything wr ...
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Wow big words from a old cripple..didn't realize you had beef to..wasn't sure I ever did anything wrong to you besides carry you one league and got you paid. so I guess some of my money went into your pocket..Every week money was paid back and I always carried 100 extra in case..Haha you said get a job..I just made $250 today..Didn't realize I didn't work..Well glad to find out what kinda of a guy you are now before ever trying to help you out..For an old vast are you sure need to grow up. If you got beef come say it to me hommie, just because I'm a great person and a better disc.golfer, you shouldn't take that badly towards me..I suggest you stick to disc in esky, because we don't need that spread around.
Jamie Vincent
May 14, 2015
me personally, in respect what u have done out there and thought we were in good kinships..Must be my meds
Jamie Vincent
May 14, 2015
also are the smoking chAins now carrying a lock box for leagues and opened a bank account?
Jamie Vincent
May 14, 2015
granted I have only played in about 15 different leagues, I only known one that was that big where they had a bank account. .idk I guess they wernt proper?
Jamie Vincent
May 14, 2015
Yup..I'll run real fast and real scared..hahaha. I'm truly moved by all the input from everyone.
Jamie Vincent
May 14, 2015
so now the chain smokers threaten people...This club will ruin the sport
Joshua N
May 14, 2015
smoking chains will do more for pioneer trail park and the county this summer than you did in your l ...
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smoking chains will do more for pioneer trail park and the county this summer than you did in your life Jamie all in one summer!!!! MARK MY WORDS!!!!! You can try to put the club down all you want but Cleary all we wanted was you OUT.......guess we all got what we wanted finally:)
Ryan T
May 14, 2015
are you closing your tuesday leagues Jamie..? If so what's happening with the money we all just paid for bag tags n what not.?
Jamie Vincent
May 14, 2015
@ Ryan, I will pay out most of that money Tuesday, all money left over will carry over to club (906) new Tuesday travel league..I hope to see you at a few
Joshua N
May 15, 2015
Joshua NÂ Â Â 7 minutes ago yeah of course you dont respond to my message.....Jamie the only ...
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Joshua NÂ Â Â 7 minutes ago yeah of course you dont respond to my message.....Jamie the only coward here is you thats for sure.....you want to put the club smoking chains on blast because your all butt hurt....Rob shoots in our league but is not one of the 6 members just to get that straight.....will I stand behind Rob YES Rob has put in more time at pioneer than you and me together so maybe you should have some respect if you were ever taught any!!!!!! you have how many people on your side saying you got cops reading this stuff and going to take action well so be it ill prove to everyone with my actions in the future that our club is very respectful....pretty sure you traveled to play in all our sunday leagues before other members started a league on same days as you which do I think was wrong YES and have said it before....I really just cant wait to see you face to face Â
Joshua N
May 15, 2015
And should we put out in public what you did at the birdie bash last year jamie? yeah you probably d ...
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And should we put out in public what you did at the birdie bash last year jamie? yeah you probably dont that would ruin you reputation right? but why keep it a secret....you light up a joint infront of a cops son playing in a tournament and cause bunch of trouble for people running it and the park officials...but yet you want to say a bunch of bad stuff thats not true about our club? I say it again Jamie all of us just wanted you out and we got what we wanted and so did all the people in charge of the place......
Jamie Vincent
May 15, 2015
Only thing I remember doing at the birdie bash was winning it..that's the on my real problem you guy ...
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Only thing I remember doing at the birdie bash was winning it..that's the on my real problem you guys have, is that I win all the time..Haters gonna hate..Maybe in 4 to 5 yrs you will start winning...Again people shouldn't be upset that I win money every week, they should upset with their game.
Jamie Vincent
May 15, 2015
only*
Jamie Vincent
May 15, 2015
Also nothing you have said has at all ruined my reputation...I'm glad everything is out for the peop ...
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Also nothing you have said has at all ruined my reputation...I'm glad everything is out for the people to read to let them make there own decisions..I created this post so people would realize how Shitty of people the.chain smokers are...I think I accomplished that nicely..Also I don't remember seeing you at the birdie bash last year..and none if what you said was true..if so all the cowards must a been to cowardly to say something, as this is the first time I have heard anything of the sorts.
Joshua N
May 15, 2015
I wasnt at the birdie bash but sure heard all about it!:) Only dirty thing we did was takeover tuesday from you! !!! and we did it but parks rules and got approval for that:)
Joshua N
May 15, 2015
you have so many comments about everyone being sad you win all the time that doesn't make me sad at ...
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you have so many comments about everyone being sad you win all the time that doesn't make me sad at all' your good never said you werent but your a scammer and con artist and Cleary delta county was just plan and sick of Jamie Vincent bullshit PERIOD!!!!!! So slander and talk all the carp you want you wont bring me and my group down no way no how buddy.....
Joshua N
May 15, 2015
see you on Tuesday!!!!!!! FLY TRUE
Jamie Vincent
May 15, 2015
There you go guy..This is like therapy..Get it all of your chest...I said what I needed to and felt my point was reached.
Ryan T
May 15, 2015
so you handed your brother his money back for bag tags but are making the rest of us play for it and what's left over your taking from one league to another..?
Jamie Vincent
May 15, 2015
wait what? I never payed Ryan back for his..plus gill paid for his last week. I'm sorry that this ha ...
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wait what? I never payed Ryan back for his..plus gill paid for his last week. I'm sorry that this happened this way..As this all wasn't my fault, Most the money will be paid Tuesday, and the rest will be spread out throughout the Tuesday leagues I hold. Hope to see you at a few
Jamie Vincent
May 15, 2015
As I said thou, most will be paid Tuesday in esky. Things originally wernt planned this way, so nothing is official yet.