4th Annual Kanawha Valley Regional Presented by Innova
PDGA A/B-tier · Sat-Sun, Jun 16-17, 2018Jun 2018 · Charleston, WV
Okay I tried to call you back and now you are telling someone that wants to move to FPO no because you are sure that someone else will sign up? that's ridiculous. And of course you waited until I paid ...
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Okay I tried to call you back and now you are telling someone that wants to move to FPO no because you are sure that someone else will sign up? that's ridiculous. And of course you waited until I paid to let anyone know that you wouldn't be moving her? I either want her moved or want my money back until we see ifsomeone else signs up. It really is starting to seem like you don't want FPO getting any of the added cash. You can call me back to discuss, but the only way it will be okay at this point is if you block off one spot for FPO and then agree to move Abbey day of if no one signs up. If no I would like my money back. This, this is exactly why women don't feel welcome in this sport, we should have to jump though hoops and get everyone woman in every division to change their reg to be treated fairly. I would like you to agree in writing that you will block off one spot for FPO, move Abbey, or give me my money back. The PDGA DOES NOT require 4 for women's division, that is optional and on the TD.
Jun 5, 2018
show 48 earlier comments
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
I thought women wanted to be treated equal? This sounds like special treatment. Might be best if you stay out of WV.
Kristy Moore
Jun 5, 2018
Actually the PDGA rules state that women and juniors do not have to have four to make a division so ...
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Actually the PDGA rules state that women and juniors do not have to have four to make a division so we are playing by the rules. but trust me I stay out of WV as much as I can, thanks for being the reason why
Abigail Sullivan
Jun 5, 2018
Mike, we need 4 to establish a division in FPO. While I'm trying to see how you think this is specia ...
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Mike, we need 4 to establish a division in FPO. While I'm trying to see how you think this is special treatment... I'm confused. I'm already registered in a division and would like to move into the open FPO spot? There is an available opening but I would rather not register twice. I have asked to be moved to FPO... Simple as that. How is this special treatment? Are you going to tell me to stay out of WV too? I kind of live here.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
Yep, special treatment...
Kristy Moore
Jun 5, 2018
You're an idiot. No wonder there are only like five women that play in WV.
Abigail Sullivan
Jun 5, 2018
So if a male advanced player wants to move to the MPO division. Is this special treatment?
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
Abby, I think the PDGA has sanctioned special treatment by saying you don't have to have 4. I'm say ...
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Abby, I think the PDGA has sanctioned special treatment by saying you don't have to have 4. I'm saying stay out of WV if you don't like the tournament and just bitch and moan about a wee bit of $$$, also she had to butt into my biz last year on here so I'm just giving it back a little bit.
Kristy Moore
Jun 5, 2018
I wouldn't even waste your breath on this sack of you know what.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
Abby, also you shouldn't have to move up just to establish a division. You should only have to move up if you want to, that's your choice.
Erin Holland
Jun 5, 2018
It should be her choice, but she doesn't seem to be given that choice. No one is forcing her to move up it is an offer she made by her own choice!
Erin Holland
Jun 5, 2018
And they are asking for "special treatment" if that is what you want to call it because the person that wanted to move up to be the fourth and was willing to was told no from my understanding.
Erin Holland
Jun 5, 2018
That's when the "special treatment" was requested
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
\"The PDGA DOES NOT require 4 for women's division, that is optional and on the TD.\" is the special ...
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"The PDGA DOES NOT require 4 for women's division, that is optional and on the TD." is the special treatment I speak of. If other divisions require 4, all should require 4. IE. no special treatment for anybody.
Abigail Sullivan
Jun 5, 2018
This tournament requires 4... end of story. We are making it happen.
Abigail Sullivan
Jun 5, 2018
I'm not being forced to move up... I'm offering to do so because I know the women who play in the area. It is unlikely there will be another women pro.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
which is so very nice of you, and I hope you crush the pro's and take all the $$!
Erin Holland
Jun 5, 2018
You are like talking to a brick wall, honestly. They are only requesting what you want to call speci ...
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You are like talking to a brick wall, honestly. They are only requesting what you want to call special treatment because the 4th was not being allowed to move up, which works of make the division have the 4 being required.You have no clue how much work it it is to get a women's field, we often have to coordinate and move to do what's best for the majority.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
Erin, you need some help reading? I'm saying the special treatment that is sanctioned by the pdga i ...
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Erin, you need some help reading? I'm saying the special treatment that is sanctioned by the pdga is allowing for less than 4. Beyond that I don't think moving divisions is anything beyond a request to Steve.
Erin Holland
Jun 5, 2018
Nope I sure don't, do you? Again they are only asking for this so called special treatment since the ...
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Nope I sure don't, do you? Again they are only asking for this so called special treatment since the event will not allow the 4th to move up. They worked very hard to get to 4 and only brought up the so called special treatment after that person was not allowed to move.
Erin Holland
Jun 5, 2018
The request was made to the TD!
Erin Holland
Jun 5, 2018
And on that note I bid you adieu, have a good evening sir
chris deitzel
Jun 5, 2018
This TD really screwed up last year as well. And West Virginia is notorious for having events that do not cater to women.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
Chris, you are flat out wrong. If you don't like it don't play.
chris deitzel
Jun 5, 2018
I’ve played over 35 West Virginia pdga tournaments going back to 1998. I’ve seen women get scre ...
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I’ve played over 35 West Virginia pdga tournaments going back to 1998. I’ve seen women get screwed over at more than half of those events. And as for last year the TD didn’t event have the decency to answer mine or Tyler Horne’s phone calls about registration.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 5, 2018
Chris, exactly my point... spend your $$ elsewhere, where you aren't so angry and bitter.
chris deitzel
Jun 5, 2018
Problem is I’m signed up for the West Virginia series and this event is a key event in that series.
Kristy Moore
Jun 6, 2018
I was talking to Steve earlier and he said his main goal is to fill this thing, bet he appreciates someone just telling people not to come. Chris don't waste your time on this loser.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
Chris, if WV disc golf is so bad why are you signed up for the WV series?
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
Oh no, Kristy Moore might take her ball and go home unless she get's her "special" treatment. Nice to resort to name calling when you know you are wrong...
Mike Sullivan
Jun 6, 2018
It's not special treatment. It reflects different circumstances. There are a fraction as many FPO players as MPO players; therefore, requiring a foursome is a more onerous burden for women to meet.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
equality brah...
Mike Sullivan
Jun 6, 2018
Exactly: because FPO players are fewer and more spread out, the PDGA does not require foursomes for ...
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Exactly: because FPO players are fewer and more spread out, the PDGA does not require foursomes for women's divisions so there's equal opportunity to have your division offered. At any rate, if the TD's going to offer a three-person FPO division at all, the TD needs to allocate added cash to that division (as Fish pointed out elsewhere).
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
\"$3,000 added cash to pros, 3000 added cash to ams. Plus $1000 added as directed by TD. Must have m ...
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"$3,000 added cash to pros, 3000 added cash to ams. Plus $1000 added as directed by TD. Must have minimum of 4 per division in order to establish division." People knew what they were signing up for from the beginning. There should be no special treatment. Should the over 50 group with only 2 get the same treatment too?
Joshua Smith
Jun 6, 2018
Just so we are all on the same page here - PDGA Competition Manual 2.01 General Section K.) A Tourna ...
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Just so we are all on the same page here - PDGA Competition Manual 2.01 General Section K.) A Tournament Director may, by indicating it on the registration form, restrict the divisions offered in their event. Absent such notice, the Tournament Director shall offer for competition any division which has four or more players that are eligible and who wish to compete. Tournament Directors may offer divisions with fewer than four players at their discretion. (See Section 1.03 H) 1.03 H.) If granted, the policy must be clearly published with all registration materials. and 1.03 I.) If a TD vacates an offered division due to a lack of registered players for the division (see 2.01.K), any player for that division that does not wish to move to a different division that they are eligible for, will be provided a full refund.
Kristy Moore
Jun 6, 2018
Myself and one of the other ladies did not pay until yesterday after we were told, and I have the me ...
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Myself and one of the other ladies did not pay until yesterday after we were told, and I have the message that once we paid he would take care of it, then once we paid he decided to not move Abbey. So we were told I promise it will get taken care of once they pay, we paid, and it's not taken care of. Then I am told there is plenty of time for another player to sign up, five days is not plenty of time.
Andrew Fish
Jun 6, 2018
If, as in 1.03I, the TD vacated an offered division due to lack of registered players, the FPO playe ...
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If, as in 1.03I, the TD vacated an offered division due to lack of registered players, the FPO players, through no fault of their own, would not be provided with an adequate opportunity to play. They would qualify for the MPO division (effectively becoming donors) or advanced divisions where their ratings permit (but by playing in amateur divisions not be eligible for cash prizes). It is bad form to offer an open division, have 3 registered players (plus others offering to play up) and then potentially contract it. A full refund is not an opportunity to play in a fair division.
Susie Byrd
Jun 6, 2018
Kristy, if you drop, I'm also going to drop. Let me know what you end up doing.
Kristy Moore
Jun 6, 2018
Will do Susie!!! Steve did tell me that he would refund my money if we don't get a fourth so I'll let you know when reg closes.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
OMG, more folks taking their ball and going home unless they get special treatment...
Mike Sullivan
Jun 6, 2018
As Fish said, this is not necessarily a matter of the TD being *unable* to promulgate such a policy, ...
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As Fish said, this is not necessarily a matter of the TD being unable to promulgate such a policy, but it's bad form IMO, and empirically unfair to the FPO players. Especially when you have an FA1 player who has offered to play FPO and complete the foursome. I understand that people get busy, but if you're running an A-Tier, you need to be available to respond to people in an expeditious fashion during tournament week.
Mike Sullivan
Jun 6, 2018
Looks as if the TD has moved Abigail up to FPO and created a card of four. Hopefully, that doesn't result in FA1 players being unable to play, either.
Mike Sullivan
Jun 6, 2018
As for the MA50 division, Mike, if it were my tournament, I'd let them play, yes: but usually, they ...
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As for the MA50 division, Mike, if it were my tournament, I'd let them play, yes: but usually, they prefer to move to MA2 or MA40, depending on age/skill/where their buddies are playing. Because women are less than 10% of the sport, they don't have that luxury, even (clearly) at high-dollar A-Tiers.
Kristy Moore
Jun 6, 2018
I had heard he had already been planning on making the rec women move if they did not have at least ...
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I had heard he had already been planning on making the rec women move if they did not have at least three anyway, so I'm sure the AM divisions will work out. I believe it was suggested that Deb move to FA1 then all of the novice move to rec. Either way those women in rec were going to have to move regardless.
Kristy Moore
Jun 6, 2018
That all said I'm am glad he just finally moved Abbey like requested. For the record, no one asked h ...
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That all said I'm am glad he just finally moved Abbey like requested. For the record, no one asked her to move, she offered on her own accord because she is an awesome person. I had reached out to every pro women I know that was withing a few hours of the event prior to Abbey even offering and was unable to find anyone available, its not like anyone just expected her or anyone just to move up because we wanted them to. All that said I'm glad its finally done and I think we can all drop it. Hopefully, if anything, people will finally see how hard it is for women to get a decent division at a lot of events and also see why some of us don't feel welcome in the sport by certain individuals.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
You don't care about the AM women, that is obvious by your incessant bitching about added cash and s ...
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You don't care about the AM women, that is obvious by your incessant bitching about added cash and special treatment for less than 4. You poached a player from the division they should be playing in, for your benefit. Effectively making Abbey a "donor" as someone referred to earlier about players moving up to other divisions. Anyway, go Abbey wipe the floor with these cry babies in your division!
Kristy Moore
Jun 6, 2018
Except no one poached her, now who is having a hard time reading. Honestly no one cares what you thi ...
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Except no one poached her, now who is having a hard time reading. Honestly no one cares what you think and you are just digging yourself deeper and deeper into your pathetic little hole, so have fun with that.
Kristy Moore
Jun 6, 2018
I actually thought about deleting this whole thread since the issue is resolved but I thought it would be better that everyone see what kind of person this dude is.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
Have fun knowing you screwed over an AM womens division.
Mike Cajohn
Jun 6, 2018
deleting this thread is the epitome of taking your ball and going home! That's not surprising knowing the type of person you are from this thread...
Aaron Burns
Jun 6, 2018
U mad bro?
Mike Cajohn
Jun 7, 2018
@Aaron Burns, that's a clown question bro!