Independence Lake County Park

Whitmore Lake, Michigan     1 course · 24 holes     Driving directions
261 following Course discussion
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Scott White    November 8, 2010 at 5:00pm

Old 16 had a non-existent score variation from blacks. On a given tournament you would see 9 out f ten players take a ho-hum 3.

Jim the new white location was moved back to lower the chance of a drive carrying to 13s fairway, and to take more advantage or the huge fairway available there. We will have to look at score variation from the new white tee but I do like Marks idea of creating OB In the flat dry area that is a pond in the spring.


Jim Daniels    November 8, 2010 at 4:49pm

Old hole 16 (long) was not a lefty deuce hole because the lefty hyzer had no chance of carrying all the way to the hole -- it was a fairly easy par 3 for a lefty. The hole could only be deuced by a very well thrown righty turnover. I don't hate the new hole just think the old hole was cooler. One problem with the new basket is that now drives from the middle tee can carry into 13's fairway.


Jamie Mosier    November 8, 2010 at 4:46pm

I have dueced 16 3 times and seen it deuced at least 5 other time if u think it could be a par 4 u r mentally challenged(cough*dan lee*cough) if u can throw 450 it is all about luck getting a duece. Good tweek cuz it's scoring differential should be more extreme. Being longs/pros the caliber player it is meant for should have no problem 3ing it weather righty/lefty bomber or not. Read some course development resources on pdga then talk some sh!t. Only good point made for old pin is by Pete ... more


mark ellis    November 8, 2010 at 4:43pm

Even as a lefty (rhfh) I like the new 16.

I seldom saw players deuce the old 16. Most times, in most groups it was just a ho hum 3 for everyone. The new 16 is a much tougher hole with more scoring variance, especially when the pond/swamp has water in it and is OB. If it were roped off OB it would be a much better hole and the OB would create a greater danger for righties, balancing out the challenge.


peter kunoff    November 8, 2010 at 4:40pm

old 16 was a sweet hole.....that said when the course was crowded or during tourney old 16's basket, 13's basket and 14's tee were very close to each other had a lot of potential for unneeded distraction/noise/etc.....


g lane    November 8, 2010 at 4:16pm

sarah demar parked it and shes a girl


Aaron DA HAWK Birdsall    November 8, 2010 at 3:54pm



Jim Daniels    November 8, 2010 at 3:40pm

I also agree with Joe and Pete -- before, there was no other hole like it, now it's just bomb the **** out of a hyzer and hope


Joe Gabris    November 8, 2010 at 3:24pm

I agree with Pete W.


Peter Wyngaard    November 8, 2010 at 2:04pm

Hole 16 is one hole I wish had not been changed. The original position, a big turnover for righties, was just a great shot. Not easy by any means, but really satisfying when you pulled it off. It was also very fair for lefties, which you can't really say about the new position...


Matt "The Spider" Swider    November 8, 2010 at 1:25pm

If you throw past the clump of trees in the center(300), and manage to make it to full pin distance(350) it's an easy 150ft lay up to the basket. If you pull it to the left in the woods at 300ft, it's still a pretty easy 3 pop-up over the bushes in front. I say that as an AM3, I cannot deude this hole without a field ace. I only average 325ft on my max drives. Even if I throw perfect placement to the dirt at the corner, there's not enough steam left on the shot to skip at the bask ... more


Mike "Papa Par" Even    November 8, 2010 at 1:04pm

It is still deuceable. Especially if land past that clump of trees and it breaks left. It is a far putt, no question, but I have seen guys ace holes farther than that. This is an easy par 3 if you don't land in the woods (which I have done a few times now on the follow up). But I shot 3 par myself on Halloween (finally), so I know a deuce is achievable.


Daniel J Lee    November 8, 2010 at 12:57pm

I'll duece hole 2 shorts at lakeshore before I will ever duece 16 white chuck d.

NOT complaining- i like the big shot hole here, just not a deuce hole.


Daniel J Lee    November 8, 2010 at 12:53pm

I'm sorry, but the new 16 white is impossibly duecable (for most people). Unless you get a miraculous/accidental roll over to the basket,this is a challenging par3, if not- par4 hole.
OKAY- IF you can throw a 500ft bomb, then it MIGHT be deucable.


Scott White    November 8, 2010 at 12:31pm

Mike, not sure I understand. You say 16 white "has no challenge anymore" yet you note that it is a tough hole for you with three different options off the tee. I think this hole invites you to try and crush it for a deuce but that can get you in trouble. For the AM2/AM3 level player they should be trying to play smart and take the three and move on. Playing smart means throwing a good drive in the fairway then parking the upshot. Is the hole deucable? I say it is, but going for that deuce involves some risk/reward.


Mike "Papa Par" Even    November 8, 2010 at 11:11am

depends on how I land. There is usually a small gust or a breeze that rolls right off the lake & down into that valley. Since being backed up (and having to fight more wind) I am having to play to the right a bit banking on that breeze pushing me left a bit. I just try to play the straight shot to the pin for the follow boring. I have no problems taking the bogey, because that is my fault for not playing better. On average, this hole is too generic. Shot straight and then shot straight again.


Mike "Papa Par" Even    November 8, 2010 at 10:25am

Was going to play Chuck D Red Tee's this past Sunday, but the wife needed some help around the house & shiz so I was unable to make it out as planned. I will try and make it out this week and review it for you guys. Played the Whites on Saturday though with the family in tow. I am finally getting used to the new tee placements except for hole 16. I am sorry, but I absolutely loath hole 16 now. It used to be much more fun playing from the previous spot. Taking the drive shot that fa ... more


Scott White    November 8, 2010 at 10:02am

White tee signs are being installed today and should be all in by Wednesday.

Red tee on hole 16 has been moved up for a different line at the basket.

Thanks Brandon for the feedback, we moved #18 back to provide more of a challenge. Why would you like to see it moved back?


Brandon LaVigne    November 4, 2010 at 6:55pm

I vote for the red tee on 18 to be moved to where the white tee used to be.


Mike "Papa Par" Even    November 4, 2010 at 11:04am

Saw Scott's Round Comments for the Red Tee's last night. My buddy didn't even know Independence was around the corner, so I'm dragging him there this weekend after we knock out Bandemer. I have played the Red's, but haven't even really thought of reviewing them. So I can help provide some feedback after this weekend if the Park is looking for some. Might be a crappy weekend weather wise, but I still plan on making it out.