Independence Lake County Park

Whitmore Lake, Michigan     2 courses · 42 holes     Driving directions
200 following Course discussion
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Daniel J Lee    November 8, 2010 at 5:26pm

i said for most people it is non-duecable you fatass. you are not most ppl.

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Jim Daniels    November 8, 2010 at 5:17pm

I do agree it adds more scoring differential and will definitely remain a tough hole if OB is put in. But that could add issues in tournaments as arguments ensue about entry point into the OB. Hole 13 at Lakeshore has the same issue, did it hit a tree inbounds and then go OB or not? I guess you could say any OB = re-tee, not sure how popular that would be.

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Scott White    November 8, 2010 at 5:09pm

By the way thanks for the thoughtful comments and let's keep em coming.

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Jim Daniels    November 8, 2010 at 5:04pm

Old hole 16 (long) was not a lefty deuce hole because the lefty hyzer had no chance of carrying all the way to the hole -- it was a fairly easy par 3 for a lefty. The hole could only be deuced by a very well thrown righty turnover. I don't hate the new hole just think the old hole was cooler. One problem with the new basket is that now drives from the middle tee can carry into 13's fairway.

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Scott White    November 8, 2010 at 5:00pm

Old 16 had a non-existent score variation from blacks. On a given tournament you would see 9 out f ten players take a ho-hum 3.



Jim the new white location was moved back to lower the chance of a drive carrying to 13s fairway, and to take more advantage or the huge fairway available there. We will have to look at score variation from the new white tee but I do like Marks idea of creating OB In the flat dry area that is a pond in the spring.

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Jim Daniels    November 8, 2010 at 4:49pm

Old hole 16 (long) was not a lefty deuce hole because the lefty hyzer had no chance of carrying all the way to the hole -- it was a fairly easy par 3 for a lefty. The hole could only be deuced by a very well thrown righty turnover. I don't hate the new hole just think the old hole was cooler. One problem with the new basket is that now drives from the middle tee can carry into 13's fairway.

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Jamie Mosier    November 8, 2010 at 4:46pm

I have dueced 16 3 times and seen it deuced at least 5 other time if u think it could be a par 4 u r mentally challenged(cough*dan lee*cough) if u can throw 450 it is all about luck getting a duece. Good tweek cuz it's scoring differential should be more extreme. Being longs/pros the caliber player it is meant for should have no problem 3ing it weather righty/lefty bomber or not. Read some course development resources on pdga then talk some sh!t. Only good point made for old pin is by Pete if u ... more

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mark ellis    November 8, 2010 at 4:43pm

Even as a lefty (rhfh) I like the new 16.



I seldom saw players deuce the old 16. Most times, in most groups it was just a ho hum 3 for everyone. The new 16 is a much tougher hole with more scoring variance, especially when the pond/swamp has water in it and is OB. If it were roped off OB it would be a much better hole and the OB would create a greater danger for righties, balancing out the challenge.

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peter kunoff    November 8, 2010 at 4:40pm

old 16 was a sweet hole.....that said when the course was crowded or during tourney old 16's basket, 13's basket and 14's tee were very close to each other had a lot of potential for unneeded distraction/noise/etc.....

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g lane    November 8, 2010 at 4:16pm

sarah demar parked it and shes a girl

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Aaron DA HAWK Birdsall    November 8, 2010 at 3:54pm

I SAY THERE ARE ENOUGH LEFTY HOLES ON THE COURSE AND EVEN THOUGH I HAVN'T DUECED IT YET I THINK I COULD

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Jim Daniels    November 8, 2010 at 3:40pm

I also agree with Joe and Pete -- before, there was no other hole like it, now it's just bomb the **** out of a hyzer and hope

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Joe Gabris    November 8, 2010 at 3:24pm

I agree with Pete W.

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Peter Wyngaard    November 8, 2010 at 2:04pm

Hole 16 is one hole I wish had not been changed. The original position, a big turnover for righties, was just a great shot. Not easy by any means, but really satisfying when you pulled it off. It was also very fair for lefties, which you can't really say about the new position...

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Matt "The Spider" Swider    November 8, 2010 at 1:25pm

If you throw past the clump of trees in the center(300), and manage to make it to full pin distance(350) it's an easy 150ft lay up to the basket. If you pull it to the left in the woods at 300ft, it's still a pretty easy 3 pop-up over the bushes in front. I say that as an AM3, I cannot deude this hole without a field ace. I only average 325ft on my max drives. Even if I throw perfect placement to the dirt at the corner, there's not enough steam left on the shot to skip at the basket the extra 80 ... more

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Mike "Papa Par" Even    November 8, 2010 at 1:04pm

It is still deuceable. Especially if land past that clump of trees and it breaks left. It is a far putt, no question, but I have seen guys ace holes farther than that. This is an easy par 3 if you don't land in the woods (which I have done a few times now on the follow up). But I shot 3 par myself on Halloween (finally), so I know a deuce is achievable.

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Daniel J Lee    November 8, 2010 at 12:57pm

I'll duece hole 2 shorts at lakeshore before I will ever duece 16 white chuck d.



NOT complaining- i like the big shot hole here, just not a deuce hole.

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Daniel J Lee    November 8, 2010 at 12:53pm

I'm sorry, but the new 16 white is impossibly duecable (for most people). Unless you get a miraculous/accidental roll over to the basket,this is a challenging par3, if not- par4 hole.

OKAY- IF you can throw a 500ft bomb, then it MIGHT be deucable.

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Scott White    November 8, 2010 at 12:31pm

Mike, not sure I understand. You say 16 white "has no challenge anymore" yet you note that it is a tough hole for you with three different options off the tee. I think this hole invites you to try and crush it for a deuce but that can get you in trouble. For the AM2/AM3 level player they should be trying to play smart and take the three and move on. Playing smart means throwing a good drive in the fairway then parking the upshot. Is the hole deucable? I say it is, but going for that deuce involves some risk/reward.

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Mike "Papa Par" Even    November 8, 2010 at 11:11am

depends on how I land. There is usually a small gust or a breeze that rolls right off the lake & down into that valley. Since being backed up (and having to fight more wind) I am having to play to the right a bit banking on that breeze pushing me left a bit. I just try to play the straight shot to the pin for the follow up....so boring. I have no problems taking the bogey, because that is my fault for not playing better. On average, this hole is too generic. Shot straight and then shot straight again.

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