Disc Golf League Association

Jeff Kaluk    October 30, 2010 at 5:26am

Sorry I could not make it. What were the general topics discussed?

Foz Miller    October 30, 2010 at 1:45am

Jamie's input - would like Regional mid term events with extra points.

Would be nice if you could get more that two league rounds per week or a way to catch up if you missed the beginning of the league due to schedule. Maybe check average # of rounds by top 100 players to see what that number is.

Jeff Bauman    October 30, 2010 at 1:17am

I wish I could make it but I have to work. Thanks for doing this you guys!

My 2 cents...

- We need a point system that make all leagues equal, like the % based system ( you get points for the % of the field you beat, not how many people you beat)

- if we use the point per person we need divisions based on the size of the league.

- I love the idea of $25 per league for a final event. plus like $20 per player. singles champ, doubles champs, league champ. Also I think if you make the f ... more

I wish I could make it but I have to work. Thanks for doing this you guys!

My 2 cents...

- We need a point system that make all leagues equal, like the % based system ( you get points for the % of the field you beat, not how many people you beat)

- if we use the point per person we need divisions based on the size of the league.

- I love the idea of $25 per league for a final event. plus like $20 per player. singles champ, doubles champs, league champ. Also I think if you make the finals, all the points are wiped out and everyone starts at zero. Not to say we cant have a season point champ.

- keep it simple!

I wish I had mor time. Good luck guys!!!!!!

Foz Miller    October 30, 2010 at 1:13am

Topic: RTM Planning Coordination meeting
Date: Friday, October 29, 2010
Time: 5:30 pm, Eastern Daylight Time
Meeting Number: 352 507 320
Meeting Password: Vector1


-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from the Apple iPhone (R) too!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://vector-cantech.webex.com/vector-cantech/j.php?ED=141989602&UID=1013507052&PW=NNjRmZjk0ZjZm&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D
2. ... more

Topic: RTM Planning Coordination meeting
Date: Friday, October 29, 2010
Time: 5:30 pm, Eastern Daylight Time
Meeting Number: 352 507 320
Meeting Password: Vector1


-------------------------------------------------------
To join the online meeting (Now from the Apple iPhone (R) too!)
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Go to https://vector-cantech.webex.com/vector-cantech/j.php?ED=141989602&UID=1013507052&PW=NNjRmZjk0ZjZm&RT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D
2. If requested, enter your name and email address.
3. If a password is required, enter the meeting password: Vector1
4. Click "Join".

To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link:
https://vector-cantech.webex.com/vector-cantech/j.php?ED=141989602&UID=1013507052&PW=NNjRmZjk0ZjZm&ORT=MiMxMQ%3D%3D


You should be able to get audio directly to your PC but you can call in if need be.


-------------------------------------------------------
To join the audio conference only
-------------------------------------------------------
To receive a call back, provide your phone number when you join the meeting, or call the number below and enter the access code.
Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada): 1-866-469-3239
Call-in toll number (US/Canada): 1-650-429-3300
Global call-in numbers: https://vector-cantech.webex.com/vector-cantech/globalcallin.php?serviceType=MC&ED=141989602&tollFree=1
Toll-free dialing restrictions: http://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf

Access code:352 507 320

Foz Miller    October 30, 2010 at 12:17am

Key Objectives for this Friday:

Collect feedback on the Summer 2010 PS - what went right and what could be improved?
Collect other ideas for improving Leagues and Disc Golf in Michigan


Start and End dates - general feedback was it was to long.

Is a Finale Event desired?
If so how should the Finale be changed?
Ideas to increase the fun and participation

Cut offs Date before any Finale - a small break is desired before the Finale, know you position, Staff prep for event, Size, Loc ... more

Key Objectives for this Friday:

Collect feedback on the Summer 2010 PS - what went right and what could be improved?
Collect other ideas for improving Leagues and Disc Golf in Michigan


Start and End dates - general feedback was it was to long.

Is a Finale Event desired?
If so how should the Finale be changed?
Ideas to increase the fun and participation

Cut offs Date before any Finale - a small break is desired before the Finale, know you position, Staff prep for event, Size, Location - course(s)?
Improvements to registration for the Finale - more notice, more options

Explore some of the suggestions already made
Semi-Final events or Regional semi-Final events
Berths to the Finale
"League Pools"


League Pools = leagues can optionally build a pool of money (like an Ace pool) that is added to the Finale but only those players that qualified for a league's pool is competing for these additional funds. Helps drive up payouts, increases incentive to play other leagues to qualify for their league pool and added incentive to attend Finale.

Course New or Improvement Projects list and Resources?

InDo - Indoor Disc Golf - any ideas?

Foz Miller    October 29, 2010 at 11:48pm

For today's meeting there are some key guidelines and info to keep in mind:

For the Summer PS feedback:
We are looking for open and honest constructive feedback. All views and ideas are welcome if they are presented for that purpose. You never know where the next great ideas will stem from. Many call this "Green Light Thinking" and we all should (especially me) simply take the feedback and log it to think about over time. No qualifying or validating this feedback now - capt ... more

For today's meeting there are some key guidelines and info to keep in mind:

For the Summer PS feedback:
We are looking for open and honest constructive feedback. All views and ideas are welcome if they are presented for that purpose. You never know where the next great ideas will stem from. Many call this "Green Light Thinking" and we all should (especially me) simply take the feedback and log it to think about over time. No qualifying or validating this feedback now - capture the feedback and move on.

For the planning for Winter and Summer - These CPS are the next opportunities to incrementally trying new ideas, testing and hopefully improving this idea of connecting all the players in a wider area to have more fun and grow the sport.

To be successful we need to work with the other organizations in our area and so we need to nail down dates so we can work with great groups like MDGO which has long been trying to optimize the Michigan statewide disc golf experience - and reducing event conflicts is one big effort that for 2011 the planning starts next month.

Hopefully we can review some of the areas of confusion or conflict and make some incremental improvements for Winter 10/11 to test them out so we can again define if any tweaks are needed for Summer 2011.

To help with that here are some key things to be aware of concerning the core ideals of this group and the Cooperative Point Series:


How did the Cooperative Point Series come about or why? What are we trying to achieve?

1) Promote Disc Golf for all level of players

2) Bring leagues and clubs closer together to cooperatively achieve greater things for the players and the sport

3) Growth and improvement of courses

4) Promoting a sustainable environment

5) Promoting strong community

The initial group that got together decided that the best "method" or disc golf activity to focus on, that already embodied most of these concepts, were DG leagues. Now all of us were League Coordinators. We were all therefore all predisposed to focus on how to maximize leagues. - So it is hard to tell which came first but the result is many more motivated players talking about about how to cooperate, continue to improve and grow the sport and the CPS is just one little aspect of that mission. I need to keep reminding myself of what the original vision was for the CPS to ensure we continue to keep heading toward maximum achievement of all these goals.

For the Cooperative Point Series the biggest area of conflict or diversion is when we try to create a better tournament or focus solely on tournament like aspects. This is why I say:

keep a "LEAGUE" mindset versus a "Tournament" mindset


Now another very important and near and dear to my heart and why I think this has been so successful is that what we have implemented has many positive factors and is achieved easily, with almost no incremental effort or cost to the players and to the league/clubs. Realize the players have to want to be involved and the league coordinators have to make it happen. There are two main factors to how this works; 1) Cooperative = some rules and guidelines are followed by the leagues because they want to, with little enforcement or effort. Players help other players and the leagues make this happen week after week and make this grow as a grass roots activity. 2) The Automation Magic: Disc Golf Scene (DGS) has automated almost all the effort of processing data, generating the view of lots of data, connecting schedules and resources, spreading the word of when and where events occur, exchange of info between players.... The basic CPS works with no extra effort on the legaue coordinator - they enter scores as they have been and DGS makes the rest happen. - Thanks! Pete

Realize that we have to evaluate new ideas based on how we could implement them to ensure they are followed consistently by all, no one has to monitor or spend time chasing down or resolving mistakes or human errors and any changes to the automation (DGS) is completely dependent on DGS, not only if the changes are feasible but the time and effort to make changes or improvements. I could rant a long time about the cost of software and graphic updates and also on how many hours there are in a day but I think we understand the basics of this.

OK - so lets see what we can get done in the first virtual and in-person Cooperative Point Series player's meeting. I'll re-post the agenda in order of importance and we will get to what we can and anyone can post ideas and suggestions any time but we will be making decisions for the Winter CPS and the basic details for Summer 2011 CPS in the next weeks so we can cooperatively participate in the state wide planning next month and post info to all of us who are interested in the Winter PS which starts very soon.

Thanks for everyone's input and efforts - OH and COOPERATION...

Foz Miller    October 29, 2010 at 10:43pm

Jake - Thanks and I agree with your desire and motivation. The question on this topic, from many discussions in the past, came down to balancing the very active players with not so active players; new players and those who have very busy schedules. How do you define a PS so it encourages more play but does not discourage those who wish they could but are limited in how often then can play. "If I can only play 1 or 2 times and others are able to get points for 3-4 rounds a week then I mig ... more

Jake - Thanks and I agree with your desire and motivation. The question on this topic, from many discussions in the past, came down to balancing the very active players with not so active players; new players and those who have very busy schedules. How do you define a PS so it encourages more play but does not discourage those who wish they could but are limited in how often then can play. "If I can only play 1 or 2 times and others are able to get points for 3-4 rounds a week then I might as well not even be a part of this". The best solution was let those who play often keep the best two rounds so there is motivation and some advantage to playing as many rounds as possible while the majority of players can get 1 to 2 rounds in a week - no perfect solution but the best compromise we could devise so far. Always looking for new ideas....

I have to keep reminding myself that to reach the highest potential of players we have to have a "LEAGUE" mindset versus a "Tournament" mindset which is different than what has been happening in the sport up to now - with respect to events. Most experienced players have been playing and dreaming about what makes the best tournament and "we" are focused on what will bring out the most players and encourage them to keep playing, with many playing tournaments as a natural progression or to experience that aspect of the sport.

I like the feedback and any ideas to improve on this concept of finding a balance to offer more to all level of players. It is almost impossible to be all things to all level of players but that is our quest. What we have is the best we have found so far and we are always looking at how to improve.

Mike Even    October 29, 2010 at 7:41pm

on a side note....Does anyone have a good website to order discs from? I have CJ's around the corner on North Territorial and there are a few shops in Brighton/Ann Arbor that are carrying discs, but I know I can get a better deal. I am digging around on the web, but I'm not seeing the deals I know are out there. Amazon.com has discs, but I can't find anything with a free shipping deal or anything. And nothing against CJ's, but sometimes they can be a tad high on the prici ... more

on a side note....Does anyone have a good website to order discs from? I have CJ's around the corner on North Territorial and there are a few shops in Brighton/Ann Arbor that are carrying discs, but I know I can get a better deal. I am digging around on the web, but I'm not seeing the deals I know are out there. Amazon.com has discs, but I can't find anything with a free shipping deal or anything. And nothing against CJ's, but sometimes they can be a tad high on the pricing. I know this to be true because they aren't buying the kind of volume to get the better pricing, some discs are costing almost $30. Thanks to all in advance

Jake Wood    October 29, 2010 at 7:11pm

I wont be able to attend in person, however I will follow in this section. My only concern with the CO-OP has to do with the limitation of rounds used to rounds played. I think there should be incentive to play more league rounds. Our winner played 50 league rounds this year which is roughly 1.75 league rounds per week. If we are trying to bring leagues together and get people mobilized there should be a feeling of "Gotta get to leagues" Maybe increase the cap from 2 league rounds per week to 3 or 4.

Mike Even    October 29, 2010 at 5:50pm

Usually to join a Skype room, you have to be on the Room Admin's buddylist. So basically we need your Skype name, add you as a friend, and then you can invite people into the Room. I think you can do a public room, but those can get crazy because ANYONE can just join it. Once added to the room you can bookmark the room.

Foz Miller    October 29, 2010 at 4:34am

Looks like Skype has a group video option if everyone has the latest skype. I think I may just setup a WebEx meeting for 1.5 hours. I'll post the link here and you can open it in a browser and we can share documents, audio and video. I'll set that up tomorrow and post the info here by 5:00 and have that for anyone who needs to join the meeting remotely. I have not had many confirmations so it may just be a few of us - less input but things will go faster.

Jeff Kaluk    October 29, 2010 at 4:08am

looks like I will have to do an audio or video link for the meeting. let me know what i need to do. Thanks.

Foz Miller    October 29, 2010 at 12:48am

Your ahead of me Mike - since you are the first to respond back on a video connect I guess Skype is going to be the video connection method. I'll look into a "Skype room" - new to me but I only do limited skyping with Grandma so she can see the grand kids. I'll check it out and post the info here for anyone who wants to see and hear all the fun. Thanks - Join when you can

Mike Even    October 27, 2010 at 2:36am

So I looked ahead at my work load and it's going to be a crazy Friday. Won't be able to make a 5:30 meeting, but I can jump on Skype. Is there a Skype room already setup?

Foz Miller    October 26, 2010 at 11:21pm

Ok - so I would sign up 3 or 4 times for homemade pickles but what would get others out there, besides me promising not to bring my pickles - Flip City - you just have to love it.

peter kunoff    October 26, 2010 at 9:23pm

I suggest homemade pickles for the finale

Foz Miller    October 26, 2010 at 8:10pm

Reminder - Friday at 5:30 we will be discussing the direction of the Michigan Cooperative Point Series for Winter and next Summer. If you want to discuss in person a few will meet at my house - please let me know if you plan on attending in person. Otherwise we will be here - in the DGLA "Disc Golf League Association" Talk section and if anyone wants to do a video/audio meeting let me know we can skype or netmeeting or something else. Otherwise I will post periodic summaries of the ... more

Reminder - Friday at 5:30 we will be discussing the direction of the Michigan Cooperative Point Series for Winter and next Summer. If you want to discuss in person a few will meet at my house - please let me know if you plan on attending in person. Otherwise we will be here - in the DGLA "Disc Golf League Association" Talk section and if anyone wants to do a video/audio meeting let me know we can skype or netmeeting or something else. Otherwise I will post periodic summaries of the meeting and discuss other posts to this Talk section.

If you can not attend and have ideas or topics you can post them here so everyone can think about them and post back.

Key Objectives for this Friday:

Collect feedback on the Summer 2010 PS - what went right and what could be improved?
Collect other ideas for improving Leagues and Disc Golf in Michigan

To help with planning at the up coming MDGO meeting we need to plan as much as possible for what events we would like and on what dates would be desired to have them so that cooperatively a Michigan Disc Golf schedule can be pulled together to help us all plan and prepare for 2011 disc golf in Michigan.

Discuss key aspects of the Winter and Summer PS:

Start and End dates - general feedback was it was to long.
Is a Finale Event desired?
If so how should the Finale be changed?
Ideas to increase the fun and participation
Cut offs Date before any Finale - a small break is desired before the Finale, know you position, Staff prep for event, Size, Location - course(s)?
Improvements to registration for the Finale - more notice, more options

Explore some of the suggestions already made - Semi-Final events, Regional semi-Final events, Berths to the Finale, "League Pools".

League Pools = leagues can optionally build a pool of money (like an Ace pool) that is added to the Finale but only those players that qualified for a league's pool is competing for these additional funds. Helps drive up payouts, increases incentive to play other leagues to qualify for their league pool and added incentive to attend Finale.

That is already a lot to cover but if time and desire permits then we could explore other ideas, dreams or comments related to the growth and improvement of Disc Golf. I am interested in what Disc Golf Course activities or projects people are thinking about. From course improvements to new courses in Michigan. Does anyone need help with a project? Where and what type of help? I would like to explore collecting and connecting the projects with those who want to help and other resources that are needed. From signs, surveying, cement, to sources for trash cans. What ideas, resources and business are there to help with such projects? How to successfully present a plan to a local government to get a course approved. What sources are there for baskets? Is there a bigger plan than just another 18 or 24 hole course in a park? What would make the best disc golf complex in the state or the world? Shouldn't that be in Michigan and not some other state?

As we head into Winter - If anyone could help find a underutilized building that we could explore for an In Door putting course that would be HOT! We could probably make the owner some money - it's worth a few minutes to explore. Almost any building could be used.

Well love to see anyone who has time this Friday online or in person or comments before or after - It's your Point Series and you can help make the future of Disc Golf in Michigan greater than it is today. Even a little contribution can help make amazing things happen. Peace

Mike Even    October 26, 2010 at 8:04pm

Sounds great. I sold out long ago, so fortunately I have a 8-5 job M-F. 5:30 for this Friday might be cutting it a little close, but I can certainly follow stuff online. Will there be a link, or something like a net meeting, con-call, etc? I'm doing the family thing, so it kind of restricts my playing in the past few years, but I'm willing to help where/when I can :) I live right around the corner and have made Independence Lake my sudo-DG home. Drop me line, add me as a friend or w.e I am loving this site btw :)

Foz Miller    October 26, 2010 at 7:14pm

Mike - Great! Everyone's input is welcomed and any help is greatly appreciated. There is a meeting this Friday online and at my house to discuss the recent Point Series and plan for the Winter 10/11 and Summer 11 PS and league activities. This is a state wide activity that is the result of the cooperative collaboration of the leagues and those players who wish to contribute.

You can always get involved in any discussion online here at any time. That is one of the great aspects of th ... more

Mike - Great! Everyone's input is welcomed and any help is greatly appreciated. There is a meeting this Friday online and at my house to discuss the recent Point Series and plan for the Winter 10/11 and Summer 11 PS and league activities. This is a state wide activity that is the result of the cooperative collaboration of the leagues and those players who wish to contribute.

You can always get involved in any discussion online here at any time. That is one of the great aspects of this website it reaches more people and connects us even if we are not all in the same place at the same time. We can still make progress and get our ideas out there to be discussed, explore new ideas and make plans to execute.

There are also several clubs in the area who have been pulling the local players together and are focusing on the local courses. There is also the MDGO which helps bring the clubs and event coordinators together for statewide planning and host several events with the state championship being the culmination of the summer DG activities. There is plenty of room for anyone to lend a hand when they can or get involved in any one of these groups. They are all focused on improving disc golf and we have more collaboration and cooperation than any time in the past.

Mike Even    October 26, 2010 at 4:26pm

Hey fellas. Just starting off on tracking all my disc golf needs online. Been playing for 13 years but never really did anything online. Would love to be more involved with the local crew(s). I see you guys have a meeting coming up this week, maybe I can catch the next one. If anyone would like to point this DSG noob in the right direction, I would sure appreciate it. Cheers