Anchorage Disc Golf Association

John Lorentzen    June 17, 2011 at 10:17pm

Amen brother! Now lets play golf!

Jeremiah Simono    June 17, 2011 at 9:10pm

It kind of looks like you may have gotten a bad first impression of John and/or the ADGA as well. It happens. On behalf of the small percentage of the ADGA I represent. I would like to apologize for anything that may have left a bad taste in your mouth. I don't want anyone to feel alienated. I don't want to see disc golfers turned against each other in a civil war so to speak. Just keep in mind, you may not have gotten such a great first impressions with others here either. I hope that ... more

It kind of looks like you may have gotten a bad first impression of John and/or the ADGA as well. It happens. On behalf of the small percentage of the ADGA I represent. I would like to apologize for anything that may have left a bad taste in your mouth. I don't want anyone to feel alienated. I don't want to see disc golfers turned against each other in a civil war so to speak. Just keep in mind, you may not have gotten such a great first impressions with others here either. I hope that we all here can just take a few steps back and ask ourselves whats really important here, and what can we just let go?

Jeremiah Simono    June 17, 2011 at 8:53pm

Why can't we all just get along?

First off, I will take NO sides in these types of arguments, but, I will elaborate on what has transpired here, in public, on the Scene.

There has been talk of first impressions. Here was my first impression of Peter, it's a quote about the Goon baskets on Dannie Hallins board...

Peter Shiver › May 26 at 9:26am
"yeah, that course sux after about 1 or 2 pm and screwed me on several putts. One guy said to me "learn to ... more

Why can't we all just get along?

First off, I will take NO sides in these types of arguments, but, I will elaborate on what has transpired here, in public, on the Scene.

There has been talk of first impressions. Here was my first impression of Peter, it's a quote about the Goon baskets on Dannie Hallins board...

Peter Shiver › May 26 at 9:26am
"yeah, that course sux after about 1 or 2 pm and screwed me on several putts. One guy said to me "learn to putt better on them and you won't have that problem". I just flipped him off and kept walking, he seemed confused by my gesture. He must not be from around here LOL"

Peter, the guy that said that to you could have acted like a total douche, I wasn't there, I don't care. Honestly, I would be confused to man. The irony is... you are the one not from around here. I don't want anyone acting like that (frustrated or not) as a member of ADGA. We have plenty of people around here already giving disc golfers a bad name. I'm not trying to attack you Peter. I'm just letting you know my first impression of you was very poor. You may raise some valid points about John or the association. As a casual member of ADGA, I don't get to contribute as much as I would like (kids, family, house, career, just like many others I'm sure), so I don't know a lot about the drama that goes down, which IMHO is a good thing. I just really like to see discs flying through the air, and I enjoy the competition between people with one common goal, the basket.

My first impression of John was that this dude loves the sport... he spends a ton of his time devoted to playing, supporting, and literally building disc golf here in AK. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes or between person to person. I saw some weird drama last year with ADGA leadership. Whatever. I can't even remember the public details, and I don't care to read back. Nobody is EVER going to be able to make everyone happy. You just hope that they do their best, or at least try to, and along the way try to resolve issues in a noble manner with everyones needs/opinions in mind. That can be no easy task for even the best of leaders.

I'm really not interested in bouncing comments back and forth here. Again, I'm not supporting anyone (although it may appear I'm leaning toward John, I lean in no direction) I just wanted to offer my own personal impression of what I see and read here. I tried to keep it factual... "this is what I see" vs "this is what I think/feel".

I would like to thank Peter for taking the first step in improving disc golf here in AK (really, I'm serious and not at all sarcastic). I hope your club can produce some baskets for Westchester. If you love this sport, than I see no problem in stirring the pot if something bothers you. Just as long as you honestly have the goal of improving things for everyone. And of course, as long as you do it in a respectable and personable way.

I would like to thank John, Thad, and everyone that contributed to Hilltop. The course is wicked. I only regret I wasn't able to help. It's truly something to be proud of.

Dustin Hanson    June 17, 2011 at 8:23pm

Holly cow indeed!

John Lorentzen    June 17, 2011 at 6:08pm

Listening to you couple of people complain for the last day, has got me thinking back the last 7 years. Holly cow, we have done a lot! Something like 7 or more local courses, a pile of leagues and tourneys, and the building of what was a strong club. It is truly unfortunate that a few people were hurt along the way. And if it was me doing the hurting, then I apologize. Look at what the efforts of a few people have accomplished! Thanks people that have helped! I sure enjoy having course options! ... more

Listening to you couple of people complain for the last day, has got me thinking back the last 7 years. Holly cow, we have done a lot! Something like 7 or more local courses, a pile of leagues and tourneys, and the building of what was a strong club. It is truly unfortunate that a few people were hurt along the way. And if it was me doing the hurting, then I apologize. Look at what the efforts of a few people have accomplished! Thanks people that have helped! I sure enjoy having course options! Could you imagine only having the goon still. I know!!! Imagine this, In one hand you have a thousand people golfing. In the other hand you have a couple butt-hurt individuals. What's better? As unfortunate as it is for people to get hurt, it was worth it! You all need to get that "sissy law-law" attitude out of your system, and work on a "can-do" attitude. Or in moving forward, nothing else will be accomplish. 

Brad Larson    June 17, 2011 at 10:22am

Okay, I'm not taking any sides here, because I wasn't there for the fore mentioned grievances, but I will say the one day that I volunteered at Hilltop I was welcomed with open arms, even though I was hours late. I see nobody responded to to the fact that the leagues being held there is why we get a 20% discount, JUST SAYING. In conclusion can't we all just get along?

Luke Monyer    June 17, 2011 at 7:07am

throwing in my cents....
a lot of work has got accomplished over the years, which I'm sure people appreciate in their own way
but the way people are treated and talked to are done disrespectfully, everyone's different and are entitled to do as they will without hearing negative criticism for not pleasing someones wishes
speaking from a long time of first hand experience...

Dustin Hanson    June 17, 2011 at 5:00am

As much as I like, not love, the new Hilltop course, there is no way that I am going to play doubles there. One group tees off on 1, another tees off on... what 17, and then one more can tee off on 15? It's a 3 hour (minimum) commitment and the hills are killer on this old man.

John Lorentzen    June 17, 2011 at 4:42am

Here's something constuctive, FAIRBANKS DISC GOLF tourney! This Saturday at 4pm, birch hill dg couse!!!! They are really looking forward to our support. Hot weather and lots of golf!!! What more could you ask for. If you need a ride or help in any way getting there, let me know. 250-8216

Som Bouasri    June 17, 2011 at 4:39am

What!!!
People are getting called out and things getting blown out of proportion, that never happens in the Alaska Disc Golf Association.
Oh wait...
Meh

Peter Shiver    June 17, 2011 at 4:33am

John, it wasn't a matter of accomplishing anything malicious. Observations were made and you attacked them with a "holier than now" attitude and it is off-putting. The other off-putting comments were you guilt tripping people that weren't there to help. Yeah, maybe more should’ve come up to help, but people have lives as well and/or kids, etc.
How do you feel justified in doing that? Do you think that motivates people to want to help or work with you ... more

John, it wasn't a matter of accomplishing anything malicious. Observations were made and you attacked them with a "holier than now" attitude and it is off-putting. The other off-putting comments were you guilt tripping people that weren't there to help. Yeah, maybe more should’ve come up to help, but people have lives as well and/or kids, etc.
How do you feel justified in doing that? Do you think that motivates people to want to help or work with you? Think about it dude, can you REALLY not see that? Do you feel so convicted that you're blind to the image you project? It isn't inviting in the least bit.

I felt attacked and then you even had the gumption to patronize Dale and me. Were you accomplishing anything constructive by these comments? It seems like you indirectly/directly called us out. You brought this front on yourself... We defended ourselves and then you have your friend/cousin come vouch for you and then patronize us. He only has one side of the story, so how can any of Brandon's comments be taken but with a grain of salt?

Who is this Thad guy that keeps sending me private messages? It appears he is one of your confidants as well that is blasting me with messages. He seems to want to know stuff that I think he already knows and is trying to be all covert. The word is that you don't have a high opinion of him and talked a lot of shit about him. Now he seems to be your buddy, you either buried the hatchet or you haven't told him all the terrible things. If it is the latter, then you've been using him or used him quite a bit to do your bidding. That is pretty fuct if you ask me. At the same time it does seem to fit your MO. I’m sorry you’re blind Thad, you seem lost. Maybe you’ll find what you’re looking for, but it isn’t with John unless you’re just like him as well.

I’m really not sure what else to say as I never intended on any of this to happen. This snowballed from nothing it seems, especially after going back and looking at the time line and comments posted. It seems that is has been blown out of proportion, but then again, so does the history in this entire thread. There are common players amongst all of that as well….history repeating itself…maybe…

I’m a new player from Kentucky trying to play some disc golf, meet some Alaskan folk and all this happens. I’m not going to believe that this will be an indication of what is to come from others. I’m disgusted to be quite honest. I’ve never been to place that involved disc golf and had some much BS going on like this. All the other places I’ve been that involved disc golf was way fun, this is not.

John Lorentzen    June 17, 2011 at 3:46am

What are you guys trying to accomplish here? Anything constructive?

Peter Shiver    June 17, 2011 at 3:42am

LOL John, okay.

Also, Brandon came to your rescue about you NOT having ties to the ADGA and you just stated that you did indirectly. Are you guys cousins?

Jeremy Boyd    June 17, 2011 at 3:06am

I have no qualms with the course fees John. I merely stated that I (and others, but of course our opinions don't really matter anyway) find it a bit odd that we are holding our doubles league at a pay-to-play course. $9-$12 for a doubles round does seem a bit steep IMO. I'm not talking about an additional break on fees for casual rounds, just for doubles leagues. I would think Hilltop would be amenable to this, as it brings in revenue from players that would otherwise be at Kincaid ... more

I have no qualms with the course fees John. I merely stated that I (and others, but of course our opinions don't really matter anyway) find it a bit odd that we are holding our doubles league at a pay-to-play course. $9-$12 for a doubles round does seem a bit steep IMO. I'm not talking about an additional break on fees for casual rounds, just for doubles leagues. I would think Hilltop would be amenable to this, as it brings in revenue from players that would otherwise be at Kincaid. How many other non-league disc golfers did you see out there?

No, I was not at any Hilltop work parties. Oh snap! You got me. You might stop to consider why, as I was more than willing to volunteer my time at Westchester last year. Oh yeah, I forgot. That doesn't mean anything either, just like my opinion or anyone else's for that matter.

Jeremy Boyd    June 17, 2011 at 2:57am

Course reviews of Hilltop and people's experiences with and opinions of ADGA and individuals are DISTINCT...there is no correlation there so don't try to create one.

John Lorentzen    June 17, 2011 at 2:56am

Peter at a hilltop work party? Negative! You at a hilltop work party? Negative! If you have concerns about paying too much, talk to the ADGA board. Thier the ones that approved it! I'll back them up on this. We are getting 20% greens fees all year, F
for having leagues there two times a month. It's called a PARTNERSHIP! We (the ADGA) should support hilltop, because if they fail, we failed!

Jeremy Boyd    June 17, 2011 at 2:43am

I'll take that last dollar of yours

Brandon Bueter    June 17, 2011 at 2:38am

The only thing that I have seen is the reviews for the course, and they speak for themselves, do you think that the course magically appears? I came up there for vacation last year and put in 20 hours of work at Kincaid, i would bet my last dollar that is more than the two of you have put in together up there at any course. John has no ties with the adga anymore, you all made sure of that, but still takes the time to finish what he started in completing the hilltop course if that's not honorable i don't know what is

John Lorentzen    June 17, 2011 at 2:26am

Here we go again!  Who are these guys? Maybe they're related....Brothers, cousins, partners.... Your guess is my guess.
Another example of "none do-ers" making ripples in the water. Is this being productive in anyway? Can we just stay focus on growing disc golf in Alaska? 

Jeremy Boyd    June 17, 2011 at 2:18am

You might consider that you've heard ONE side of the story. Have you solicited anyone else's opinion? I think you might be surprised at the number of people that feel EXACTLY the way Peter does, and his experience with the ADGA is quite limited as he is new to the state. There are plenty of others who have felt the same LONG before he showed up here.

Peter actually DID show up to a work party but was made to feel unwelcome and guilty for not having been at previous work parties ( ... more

You might consider that you've heard ONE side of the story. Have you solicited anyone else's opinion? I think you might be surprised at the number of people that feel EXACTLY the way Peter does, and his experience with the ADGA is quite limited as he is new to the state. There are plenty of others who have felt the same LONG before he showed up here.

Peter actually DID show up to a work party but was made to feel unwelcome and guilty for not having been at previous work parties (please correct me if I'm wrong Peter). What kind of - to borrow one of your favored words - diarrhea is that? The guy's very first impression of the ADGA sure was a good one...

As far as the league is concerned, Peter merely noted that it seems a bit odd to hold our weekly doubles league at a pay-to-play course, thereby increasing the cost of participation for something that should be relatively nominal. At the very least I believe Hilltop should give us an ADDITIONAL break on the player's fees if we are to hold doubles there.

The last paragraph of your post reeks of irony that you probably don't even see yourself...