Union Strikes at Indy

Aaron Nitz    October 20, 2010 at 7:16pm

Great tournament, guys. Awesome weather, great courses, great tee pads on the Chuck D. Thanks for your TD efforts and the volunteers you had helping you. Now if you could just help me on my putting....

Douglas "Fresh" Watson    October 20, 2010 at 6:11am

Hey Mike, thanks for posting the scores. My name is linked with some other guy's PDGA number though. Mine is #29336. Weird thing is it's another Doug, but he's in Maryland.

Mike Fortunato    October 19, 2010 at 6:08pm

Scores will be posted this evening. Thanks for your patience. Also, thanks to Ben for documenting the day.

Tony Vidal    October 19, 2010 at 8:37am

Posting scores?

Ben Seese    October 19, 2010 at 5:37am

My pictures are online: http://www.discgolfscene.com/profile/4420/pictures/album_4672
And full-resolution versions on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/benseese/sets/72157625194452124/
(feel free to download & re-use -- just keep my name attached)

Sorry no legitimate action shots, I was busy throwing all day. According to my score card, I was the busiest guy out there!

Douglas "Fresh" Watson    October 19, 2010 at 2:24am

I was in the group that allowed the player in question to join. We had finished 10, which is the hole we started on, before he came up and joined us. For some reason there were no cards in front or behind us for several holes. I don't understand why we had to head all the way back to 10 as a 3-some with no other groups by us, but then I'm not a TD. It's ****ty to hear about the other guy getting 8 penalty strokes when the dude that joined our group got nothing. Again, I'm not ... more

I was in the group that allowed the player in question to join. We had finished 10, which is the hole we started on, before he came up and joined us. For some reason there were no cards in front or behind us for several holes. I don't understand why we had to head all the way back to 10 as a 3-some with no other groups by us, but then I'm not a TD. It's ****ty to hear about the other guy getting 8 penalty strokes when the dude that joined our group got nothing. Again, I'm not a TD so it was your call, Fortch and I see you have your reasons. The player in question should have payed more attention so as to not create unnecessary burden for other players, and that is nobody's fault but his own. Maybe next tourney he'll double check before he goes bumble****ing through the course.

I don't believe the Am pool was given enough time to get out to Chuck D, though. I trucked it out to 10 (a LONG walk for someone who hasn't played the course before), and made it maybe a minute before 2-minute. The next guy came at the 2-minute, and the 3rd came after the starting horn out of breath and looking exhausted.

Regardless, I had an excellent time and I feel the tourney went pretty smooth and that 101 did a good job of running the show. Can't let one (or more) player's lack of attention to the details ruin a beautiful day of disc golf.

Chris Jackson    October 19, 2010 at 1:31am

I saw a similar scenario at the Hambrick open back in July. The TD put all AM2s in 3-somes. Someone who was supposed to be on my card started one hole back. Since you cannot play a tournament round as a twosome, we had to try to find out what to do. The TD decided to have us wait until the other group finished the previous hole and then let him join us (the correct card) with no penalty. Then he would witness me and the other player on my card play our last hole since he already would have ... more

I saw a similar scenario at the Hambrick open back in July. The TD put all AM2s in 3-somes. Someone who was supposed to be on my card started one hole back. Since you cannot play a tournament round as a twosome, we had to try to find out what to do. The TD decided to have us wait until the other group finished the previous hole and then let him join us (the correct card) with no penalty. Then he would witness me and the other player on my card play our last hole since he already would have played it at the beginning. In this case, it was probably his fault since he set everyone up in 3-somes, which leaves you susceptible to this scenario.

If everyone goes to the player's meeting and checks the board before heading out to their holes, then this kind of thing doesn't happen. I know a lot of people at tournaments are trying to get an early look at the board so they don't have to fight the crowds after the player's meeting. I'd say it's worth it to make sure you get to where you need to be.

The leaderboard can change before the player's meeting for whatever reason. Someone might have to withdraw due to illness, injury, or some other emergency (You're not going to hear from the people who say "screw this, I'm going home" so I don't think you can really prepare for it). Maybe the TD decides to run 4somes instead of 5somes. The best way to ensure you go to the correct hole is to check that thing after the player's meeting.

Would it be worth it to go to the PDGA with this scenario to get some more insight and possibly a rule clarification?

Brooke Plantz    October 19, 2010 at 12:25am

I had a great time at Union Strikes! The tournament ran smoothly. Forch & the 101 did a great job.

On another note it does make me smile to hear some upset players mainly because it shows you can never make everyone happy especially disc golfers. I hope some of you A3 bashers take note!

Jamie Mosier    October 18, 2010 at 11:46pm

Playing course in the wrong order 2 strokes. It would be the same thing.

Scott White    October 18, 2010 at 10:16pm

That said, if it were my group I would not allow a player to join that was not grouped with me on the leaderboard and had no name on the scorecard. The group of players should have said "no way, go find your hole" but they didn't and allowed the guy to join. Not much the TD can do about it after the fact.

Scott White    October 18, 2010 at 10:11pm

The only deja vu here is a TD getting blamed for a mistake made by a player.

I can't find anything in the pdga rulebook for a player going to the wrong group. (anyone else? I have limited time) That would boil down to TD discretion and to me it looks like Fortch made a fair call.

Shaun Adkins    October 18, 2010 at 10:09pm

agreed. fortch is of the people persuasion and therefore sucks.

Mike Fortunato    October 18, 2010 at 9:20pm

@ Brandon:

What I meant by saying "It was my understanding that the player in question had completed all the holes, but on another card." was that he had completed all 18 holes with the same group, but on the wrong card. Sorry to hear that you're so upset and that you won't be playing any more of our events.

@Shaun: I love you too!

Brandon "Double B" Butler    October 18, 2010 at 9:10pm

Also we gave the other opportunity to throw the holes he missed but I was told if a player missed a hole they got a 7. The other guy might have cashed without the 8 stroke penalty. No announcement was made to note a rule change. All in all the whole thing was bs and I shan't be playing another local 101 tourney

Mike Fortunato    October 18, 2010 at 9:09pm

LOST AND FOUND:
- Orange Soft Challenger
- Pair of sunglasses

Shaun Adkins    October 18, 2010 at 9:01pm

i always intend to offend. seems like ben knows something i dont. i was just running my mouth with the intent of getting butler an answer. i did pose it as a question, not a statement. **** your feelings fortch.

Brandon "Double B" Butler    October 18, 2010 at 9:00pm

The player in question joined the card he was not supposed to be on after they finished their first hole( which was ten) did someone watch him shoot every hole or did he just play up to them as a single? He thought he was supposed to start on nine so who watched him play nine and ten?

Luke Holtzapple    October 18, 2010 at 8:55pm

Sorry I didn't make it yesterday. Now I have to wait unti January for Cali dreamin!

Mike Fortunato    October 18, 2010 at 8:48pm

To address Brandon's concerns:

I made the decision that penalizing the player in question for playing on the wrong card would have been a bit severe. Since he did complete all holes (which is what I was told), I felt that he deserved the score he got, even though he was on the wrong card, whereas the player who showed up late did not complete all the holes, therefore he took a 4 stroke penalty on all uncompleted holes. I made sure to let the player in question know that in the future, if ... more

To address Brandon's concerns:

I made the decision that penalizing the player in question for playing on the wrong card would have been a bit severe. Since he did complete all holes (which is what I was told), I felt that he deserved the score he got, even though he was on the wrong card, whereas the player who showed up late did not complete all the holes, therefore he took a 4 stroke penalty on all uncompleted holes. I made sure to let the player in question know that in the future, if he were not playing on the right card, most TD's wouldn't be as lenient as me. I believe that he learned his lesson and that is the most important thing. It was my fault for not addressing the group in which the player had mistakenly joined and inquiring on the matter. It was my understanding that the player in question had completed all the holes, but on another card. Had I known that he missed a hole, I would have given him the same penalty that the other player received for incomplete holes.

To address Shawn's concerns:

I believe that the player in question has never played any 101 events and I hadn't met him until yesterday. My definition of lame **** is making dumbfounded comments on matters in which you have no frame of reference. The fact that youre suggesting that I would give anyone an advantage because they are a friend or a "local", as you put it, is offensive.

Ben Calhoun    October 18, 2010 at 8:32pm

deja vu