The Angry Squirrel

Larry LaBond    May 24, 2012 at 5:46am

Thanks for all the nice comments. As someone who runs events it is always nice to hear that people enjoy and appreciate what you do. Also, the scores are on the PDGA site. They were up there before they were on the scene.

Barry Hutton    May 23, 2012 at 4:05pm

Why arn't these scores posted to the pdga website?

Dan Kilgore    May 23, 2012 at 10:38am

All though I didn't play in my division (that I initially signed up for, my bad) or play as well as I could. I had a great time playing in this year's Angry Squirrel. I love playing Victory Park, wish I lived closer as this course is a good course to challenge all my skills. I want to give a BIG THANK YOU to Larry Labond for being a very good TD. I've been a TD and it's not a fun job, but Larry did a very professional job and added a little spice to the party with those black ... more

All though I didn't play in my division (that I initially signed up for, my bad) or play as well as I could. I had a great time playing in this year's Angry Squirrel. I love playing Victory Park, wish I lived closer as this course is a good course to challenge all my skills. I want to give a BIG THANK YOU to Larry Labond for being a very good TD. I've been a TD and it's not a fun job, but Larry did a very professional job and added a little spice to the party with those black wizzards for the longest putt made on certain holes in the second round. I also liked his imagination he used for the tie breaker for the ACE POT. I really like that it cost $ 5 for both the ACE pool and the 50/50. I hope to incorporate this in our local tournaments in the future. May the course be with you K-ace's ---------- - +

Jake Angelos    May 23, 2012 at 5:40am

Well said larry. I played my first 2 tourneys in am 3 and sucked ass in both of them. My current rating is 840 and the last tourney I played in I played am 2. This was my 3rd ever tourney and first am 2 tourney and I didn't do too bad. Actually was my best finish so far. I can play am 3 because of my rating but I play am 2 because I feel that's the division I should be playing in right now.

Harold Fernando    May 15, 2012 at 6:15pm

I wholeheartedly agree with you Larry! I'm sorry that people feel the need to **** about things on this discussion board...that time of the month fellas? I played Cracked Plastic last Feb. and it was a great turnout and fun tournament...albeit it was windy as all hell and cold as fudge! I though you ran a good tourney and you've always had a good selection of plastic. Fred needs to eat **** and die! That's my two cents.......

Larry LaBond    May 15, 2012 at 5:13pm

If there are 4 players wanting a division that they are qualified for, then the TD is supposed to let them play in it. Tournaments don't have to offer all divisions. I personally don't encourage anyone to do this, especially for Am 4. I haven't heard of anyone refusing this. I never have refused anyone, but I have never had anyone try and push this either. I know that I wouldn't pay out too well in Am 4 and I would pass their money up to higher divisions. I might even c ... more

If there are 4 players wanting a division that they are qualified for, then the TD is supposed to let them play in it. Tournaments don't have to offer all divisions. I personally don't encourage anyone to do this, especially for Am 4. I haven't heard of anyone refusing this. I never have refused anyone, but I have never had anyone try and push this either. I know that I wouldn't pay out too well in Am 4 and I would pass their money up to higher divisions. I might even consider a high dollar entry fee to discourage this. I feel that the Amateur divisions are watered down too much with an Am 4 division. There should be more done to try and get people to move up faster out of the divisions that they are not really suited for, but there will always be sandbagging. To me winning the beginner division after playing in more then 15 events isn't really a win. Someone who has played in that many events isn't qualified for Am 4 anymore (IMO). You have the experience that a new player does not and that division was created for new players. Chances are that if you win Am 4, you would have placed in Am 3. What is wrong with that? To me that is a better accomplishment. Staying Am 4 because you have a low enough rating isn't a good reason to me to do so, but I guess that I'm more old school and don't really use player ratings as an excuse to stay in a division (again, especially the beginner division after playing events for 2 years).

What you had previously stated was that you were upset that tournaments were not offering Am 4 and other divisions that the PDGA recognizes and that you were mad at the PDGA for letting tournaments do this. If a tournament offers a division, then the TD is obligated to have it. So if I offer Senior Grandmasters I should have it if a player shows up to play in it, even if they are the only one. They might not have come if they were going to have to play in Grandmasters. Would you like it if you showed up for a tournament in Am 4 and there were not that many players and the TD said you had to move up into 30 person Am 3 field because he wasn't going to have Am 4?

Worlds had every division offered and had some divisions where there was only 1 player and some divisions where no one entered at all. There were players who became world champ by beating no one. My point to you was that there are a lot of divisions that don't get offered at just about every tournament and it is possible to water down a tournament to there being no point in having the tournament. Again you had stated that you were upset that TDs were not offering all PDGA divisions.

Glenn Wilson    May 15, 2012 at 8:20am

Im not saying there should be any 1 person divisions Im saying if 3 people want to sign up and qualify for a divison then they should have that division (I thought that was the pdgas format my bad). Your telling me at the worlds they had 3+ people qualify and sign up for a division and they still didnt have it? Its logical if 3+ dont show then you dont offer the division. IMO the problem with divisions is AM3 being to big and Am4 being to small. The divisions are based on rating not number of to ... more

Im not saying there should be any 1 person divisions Im saying if 3 people want to sign up and qualify for a divison then they should have that division (I thought that was the pdgas format my bad). Your telling me at the worlds they had 3+ people qualify and sign up for a division and they still didnt have it? Its logical if 3+ dont show then you dont offer the division. IMO the problem with divisions is AM3 being to big and Am4 being to small. The divisions are based on rating not number of tournaments played (thats what I thought anyway). I responded to another am4s Q because Im not `doing nothing`. If you take it as an insult that people(myself and others) want to play in `your` tournaments then Idk what to tell ya. The first tournament I ever played in was Angry Squirrel 2010 and it was one of the best run events Ive been to. Im not trying to stay in AM4 until I win an event Im staying in AM4 until my rating is good enough to move up to AM3 or until I could compete in AM3 (they should coinside)...

Larry LaBond    May 15, 2012 at 7:03am

Since you felt you needed to give your 2 cents and complained about a choice that I made on the page for my tournament, I felt I would give my 2 cents as well and explain my choice. Am 4 was created as a total beginner division where the players would only have 1-3 tournaments of experience, then move up. The reason was there were too many players that were staying Am 3 and having years of experience and beginners were having to compete against them. Apparently that is happening now in Am 4. ... more

Since you felt you needed to give your 2 cents and complained about a choice that I made on the page for my tournament, I felt I would give my 2 cents as well and explain my choice. Am 4 was created as a total beginner division where the players would only have 1-3 tournaments of experience, then move up. The reason was there were too many players that were staying Am 3 and having years of experience and beginners were having to compete against them. Apparently that is happening now in Am 4. Sounds like we need Am 5 for beginners now. In my opinion, nobody should play Am 3 after a year of playing tournaments. Ability should be no reason to play in the beginner division. I personally feel that 3 levels of amateurs is plenty and that is why I don't offer Am 4.

Also the PDGA does not force tournaments to offer specific divisions. There has never been a standard (or PDGA format), nor should there be. Why should the PDGA force tournaments to offer all the divisions they recognize. From what you are complaining about there could be no Women Only, Juniors Only, Am Only, Pro Only, and any other divisionally based tournaments. I offered 10 divisions in the Angry Squirrel. The PDGA recognizes 30, listed here:

MPO Pro Open MA1 Advanced MJ1 Junior Boys < 19
MPM Pro Master MA2 Intermediate MJ2 Junior Boys < 16
MPG Pro Grandmaster MA3 Recreational MJ3 Junior Boys < 13
MPS Pro Sr Grandmaster MA4 Novice MJ4 Junior Boys < 10
MPL Pro Legend MM1 Advanced Master FJ1 Junior Girls < 19
FPO Pro Women MG1 Adv Grandmaster FJ2 Junior Girls < 16
FPM Pro Master Women MS1 Adv Sr Grandmaster FJ3 Junior Girls < 13
FPG Pro Grandmaster Women FW1 Advanced Women FJ4 Junior Girls < 10
FPS Pro Sr Grandmaster Women FW2 Intermediate Women FM1 Adv Master Women
FPL Pro Legend Women FW3 Recreational Women FG1 Adv GM Women

Offering this many divisions is just silly for a tournament that might only have room for 72 players. How many 1 person divisions do we need? Where is the competition? Should we have trophies for all these divisions? I hosted the worlds in 2008 and we had almost 900 players, but there were some of these divisions that had no competitors. TDs "messing" with formats and doing things differently has lead to many changes over the years in the sport of disc golf. It is a good thing. Why restrict the sport? If you don't like what the TD is doing, then don't go to that TD'S events (sorry to hear you won't come to mine). Without TDs, the PDGA would not exist and the sport would be far from where it is at now. These tournaments belong to the people who run them and not the PDGA. If I don't run the Angry Squirrel next year the PDGA won't assign it to someone else to run it.

I've heard a lot of people over the years **** about the PDGA. For the most part the PDGA does a great job and has come a long way over the years. It wasn't that long ago that there was only 1 paid employee by the PDGA. If you don't like things, then get involved. It's easy to sit back and say what a bad job they are doing, especially when you are ignorant to most of what they do.

I'm sorry, but if you can't compete in Am 3 after playing in 15 events, then maybe you need to either work harder at your game or reconsider why you are playing in PDGA tournaments. It shouldn't be to play in the weakest division until you win. That isn't much of an accomplishment, IMO.

Glenn Wilson    May 14, 2012 at 9:10am

After 15+ tournys I cant compete for AM3` Ive never even won an AM4 so you dont have to worry about me watering down any of your tournys :) Ill give my money to other td`s. I was just giving my 2 cents about how the PDGA can claim to offer am4 and then allow sanxctioned events that exclude it. (the pdga is a joke). Im fine with sitting out if Im not good by your standards I just wish the pdga was who set a `standard` and that they didnt give you the power to change their format. Its not personal I dont think any TD should be able to `mess with` the pdgas format.

ken "sega salt" moote    May 14, 2012 at 6:59am

thank you to Larry and anyone who helped out, much appreciated.

Larry LaBond    May 14, 2012 at 6:51am

Actually the "special" format is to allow more players in the tournament. It doubles the possible field size by having different divisions playing on different days. I'm not trying to save $50 by adding another day of running a tournament. If that is what it was about then I would just subtract more from the payout!

Also I don't offer Am 4 because I believe that things are watered down enough. If I offered Am 4, it would be for players that are playing their first or s ... more

Actually the "special" format is to allow more players in the tournament. It doubles the possible field size by having different divisions playing on different days. I'm not trying to save $50 by adding another day of running a tournament. If that is what it was about then I would just subtract more from the payout!

Also I don't offer Am 4 because I believe that things are watered down enough. If I offered Am 4, it would be for players that are playing their first or second tournament only (to learn rules and see what tournaments are like). I feel that Am 3 does that enough. If you play in more than 2 tournaments and you need Am 4 to be competitive then maybe practice more and get better before you play another tournament or take your lumps. I have no plans to ever offer Am 4 in any of my events.

Wade TF    May 13, 2012 at 7:09am

Ill be there in the morning larry, please save me a spot

Sancho Valdez    May 13, 2012 at 12:38am

I live in Grand Rapids, MI

Sancho Valdez    May 13, 2012 at 12:37am

Looking for a ride on Sunday Open div. I have gas money. Please call 616-828-8722

Jesse Cahill    May 12, 2012 at 7:39pm

Pretty sure if 4 am4's are present then the division should be available. I'd take that question the the pdga.

Jesse Cahill    May 12, 2012 at 7:38pm

Isnt this "special" format just a way to avoid paying two sanctioning fees to the pdga? Seems to just confuse people more than anything

Larry LaBond    May 11, 2012 at 7:18am

Sorry no Am 4.

Glenn Wilson    May 10, 2012 at 8:17pm

There is NOT an AM4. Angry Squirrel has never had AM4 :( :(. I dont know why the pdga allows `sanctioned` events without all divisons but this year a lot of tournys dont have AM4... PDGA takes our $50 and then tells us we cant play because we take 1 more shot on every hole.... Personaly Id like to see a class action lawsuit brought against the pdga ...

Preston McDonald    May 10, 2012 at 5:56pm

if*

Preston McDonald    May 10, 2012 at 5:56pm

is there an am4 division and i so, what day?