Gale Vaughn Memorial

Chris Leo

It will be 22 holes like I posted, we are skipping 15 and 16.

Jason Riberas

ok, thanks Chris

justin hundich

Skip 17 and 20 instead

John Minicuci

Done.If you want to pay the difference in the morning, that is fine with us. If you want to use PayPal, send me or Chris a message and we will send you the info. Thank you for the heads up...

Kenneth Mize

No problem thanks!

John Minicuci

I talked to Shulte about High Noon...

nathan kretz

so what time is.it gonna be 11 or 12

Dan Bienkowski

high noon it is!

nathan kretz

sounds good to me

John Minicuci

Found this old gem and thought it to be appropriate: http://www.discgolfscene.com/tournaments/Gale_Vaughn_Memorial_2013/pictures/192992#192992

Mike Walker

anyone planning on playing the high noon dubs?

Marc Tokie

I am

Andy Bawol

the ghost of Rooster is waiting in the parking lot. I apologize in advance if I am your partner.

John Minicuci

Who is this Rooster you speak of?

Mark Stephens

It will be filled before them. Don't wait...

John Minicuci

The percentages of added cash and ultimate payouts are/should always be based from percentages of participants weighted more to the Open division. 3 players in one division would equal 1 paid spot.

John Minicuci

Some of the added cash would go to the Open Masters and Open Women divisions.

Sarah DeMar

I agree that the percentages of added cash should be based from the percentages of participants, but I do not agree, nor do many clubs who are more women friendly agree, that the added cash should the weighted more to the open division. Its my preference to support clubs who choose to support women and I am disappointed that Motor City changing chooses not to be one of these clubs.

Sarah DeMar

please explain the math then. in theory if there are three women and three open men then how much would go to the men vs women? thank you. I think its important to have the right expectations should I choose to play this event. The info is much appreciated.

John Minicuci

Sarah, do not write that the Motor City Chain Gang does not support women. That is not what I wrote. If 15 Open Men play in an event where 1 Open Woman plays, and there is $100 added cash, just to speak to, than giving that 1 Open Woman $25 might make her happy but there would probably be a few upse ... more

Sarah, do not write that the Motor City Chain Gang does not support women. That is not what I wrote. If 15 Open Men play in an event where 1 Open Woman plays, and there is $100 added cash, just to speak to, than giving that 1 Open Woman $25 might make her happy but there would probably be a few upset Open Men players. We cannot speculate how much will get divided until we see how many people actually participate.

Sarah DeMar

actually in this scenario you just mentioned it would be $31.25 to the one woman who equals 6.25% of the field and $31.25 is 6.25% of $500. the way to define women friendly verses women neutral verses women unfriendly isrelated directly to the percentages. anything less than thirty one dollars is ... more

actually in this scenario you just mentioned it would be $31.25 to the one woman who equals 6.25% of the field and $31.25 is 6.25% of $500. the way to define women friendly verses women neutral verses women unfriendly isrelated directly to the percentages. anything less than thirty one dollars is women unfriendly because you do not allocate the same percentage as that which the participants represent. At 31 dollars of any cash you achieve when neutral status. paying more than the percentage which we represent women friendly status. its very simple it's not the least bit about name calling. Its simply stating the clubs value on women participating.I I think that setting expectations properly is important for helping players to decide whether to play or not. The unfriendly women policy(not adding the same percentage of add cash to that which we represent) dissaudes me from partucipating if my participation is not valued equally to the men.

Sarah DeMar

furthermore I'm good friends with a lot of a really excellent disc golfers in the state and I've polled them on this question and none of them have said they'd begrudge women getting a women neutral percentage. So who are these upset open players that feel women do not deserve as much ... more

furthermore I'm good friends with a lot of a really excellent disc golfers in the state and I've polled them on this question and none of them have said they'd begrudge women getting a women neutral percentage. So who are these upset open players that feel women do not deserve as much as them? I'd be very curious to know who they are because they are and why their opinion means more than mine, or the opinions of the women friendly open men that I know.

John Minicuci

The percentage will be exactly what I stated in my first post: "The percentages of added cash and ultimate payouts are/should always be based from percentages of participants". The reason I stated "weighted more to the Open division" is because most events, if I am not mistaken, ... more

The percentage will be exactly what I stated in my first post: "The percentages of added cash and ultimate payouts are/should always be based from percentages of participants". The reason I stated "weighted more to the Open division" is because most events, if I am not mistaken, have more Open Men than Open Women, except Woman only events, of course. The MCCG has not, as far as I know, slighted Women, Open or Amateur, at any event. I also said "but there would probably be a few upset Open Men players" but I did not mention anyone specific. Even though I am educated, I am not versed enough as to actually write how someone other than myself would feel in any given situation. It really comes down to this, Sarah, do you want to play or don't you? If you have more important things to do, we understand. Only you can decide. We can say this, we will pay out fairly and for the most part, over what we advertise. This is not indifferent to most MCCG events.

Chris Wojciechowski

Sarah - I understand you enjoy creating conflict to draw attention to the issue of added cash for an Open Women's division, but you can't go putting words into peoples' mouths. You always do that. If you construe what John said TRUTHFULLY: He gave the example of "If $100" ca ... more

Sarah - I understand you enjoy creating conflict to draw attention to the issue of added cash for an Open Women's division, but you can't go putting words into peoples' mouths. You always do that. If you construe what John said TRUTHFULLY: He gave the example of "If $100" cash is added - then $25 is too much in the event of a 15:1 field split. He used $100 to keep the math simple. Extrapolated out to $500 what he was saying was in the event of a 15:1 ratio of men:women, then $125 added to the one woman would be too much. I'd call it a simple misunderstanding but you do it all the time.

Jamie Mosier

U hate disc golf :p

Sarah DeMar

No it wasnt intentional, i mistook the 100 example for 500 and i agree adding 25% of the ac to a person (of any gender)who represents 6.25% of the field would be wildly off base, which is why i assumed we were talki g about $500 not $100. i am NOT putting words into anyones mouths, women unfriendly ... more

No it wasnt intentional, i mistook the 100 example for 500 and i agree adding 25% of the ac to a person (of any gender)who represents 6.25% of the field would be wildly off base, which is why i assumed we were talki g about $500 not $100. i am NOT putting words into anyones mouths, women unfriendly, neutral and friendly are simply terms utilized to describe how the ac is distributed. what would be a better label for when women dont receuve the same % of ac as that which they represent? please tell me, i would be willi g to change the terminology ive coined. its possible we are on the same page? John seems to be reassuring that womenwill not get gypped at mccg's events, so i will trust that apparent reassurance and hope for fairness. nice personal attack, though, woj, herea one backatcha: if you met susan b anthony youd be one of thosw men that tried to silence her and get her thrown in the slammer! i may hate disc golf but i dont hate women. hows that for words in the mouth woj? km the susan b anthony of disc golf b****es!

Sarah DeMar

im the venus williams of disc golf b*****es!!!

Chris Wojciechowski

You've won the Wimbledon of disc golf how many times?

Chris Wojciechowski

As for your Susan B Anthony thing... I have no need to defend myself against you. My time spent working with Spectrum at UToledo and Womens Issue Circle at Bluffton U in the past matter to those that matter to me. You've put words in peoples' mouths in an effort to cause conflict for YEARS ... more

As for your Susan B Anthony thing... I have no need to defend myself against you. My time spent working with Spectrum at UToledo and Womens Issue Circle at Bluffton U in the past matter to those that matter to me. You've put words in peoples' mouths in an effort to cause conflict for YEARS, on the PDGA.com Forums and apparently now here. You misconstrue statements and make decent people sound like misogynists on a frequent enough basis that it is completely noticeable. Your cause is fine - the way you go about it is awful.

Sarah DeMar

i use math to further my cause. yoh hate math.

Shrimp Boat Captain

woj is better at math than all of us lol

Chris Wojciechowski

Your love of math is to be admired... but love does not correlate with knowledge. As evidenced above by your determination that a 15:1 split of $100 leads to your earning $31.25. Diophantus is rolling in his grave now Sarah. Your equal rights motivation is also to be admired... but at this point you ... more

Your love of math is to be admired... but love does not correlate with knowledge. As evidenced above by your determination that a 15:1 split of $100 leads to your earning $31.25. Diophantus is rolling in his grave now Sarah. Your equal rights motivation is also to be admired... but at this point your attitude makes me wonder: do actual women want YOU as their Susan B. Anthony.... or just the voices in your head telling you you're worthy of that title. Making comparisons like that indicates a serious perception issue, there are specialists you could talk to about this egomaniacal streak of yours you know, megalomania is no laughing matter.

Sarah DeMar

date with the math thing I already told you it made no sense to use $100 instead of $500 which is what the added cash actually is. which is why I made the assumption that we were using $500 all along

Chris Wojciechowski

And before you accuse me of sexism - please note that I am all for equal payout ratios. If anything I am ageist and anti-masters cash added. I'm just saying maybe women would prefer someone (yes I mean someone female, before you put more words in my mouth) capable representing them.

Paul DISC-OR-DIE Holstein

Since I play Adv. Masters I've never paid much attention to "added cash". Does anyone have any insight into what the intent is? I assume it's required by the PDGA for certain tiers.

John Minicuci

you would be correct Paul:http://www.pdga.com/tour/standards#tier-standards-chart

Paul DISC-OR-DIE Holstein

I think that you need a more complex algorithm to account for the fact that it costs less to get into the pro women's division versus the pro open division. What about basing the payout on the percentage of the money collected form the open women, versus just their percentage of the field? ... more

I think that you need a more complex algorithm to account for the fact that it costs less to get into the pro women's division versus the pro open division. What about basing the payout on the percentage of the money collected form the open women, versus just their percentage of the field? So calculate the cash collected from open women divided by the total cash from all open players, and then multiply that by the added cash. For example, if there were 5 OPEN @ $20, 5 OPEN MASTERS @ $10 and 5 OPEN WOMEN at $10 there would be a total of 15 players and $200. Even though OPEN WOMEN are 33% of the field, they only account for 25% of the cash. So from the $500 added, only $125 would go to OPEN WOMEN (with $125 to OPEN MASTERS and $250 to OPEN). Bottom line, I agree with Sarah that it makes sense to base it on mathematics.

Paul DISC-OR-DIE Holstein

Not that I care, but just basing the percentage of the added cash on the percentage of the field isn't exactly fair based on the lower cost of the tournament entry fee for the women and masters. We definitely want to keep the women and masters coming back!

Mark Stephens

Added cash is added at the TDs descretion. No formula is needed

Paul DISC-OR-DIE Holstein

I see your point Mark, but tournaments are expensive so I think players have a right to have certain expectations (such as a standard for added cash disbursement). Certainly debatable, so I understand why it's being debated.

Mark Stephens

It is fine to ask how they intend to add cash. Never said that you cannot ask...

Daemon Stahlin

where's the money lebowski

Corbyn Blackwell

I like how some people see someone change history like Venus did (witch is a great) but she did it right and fought hard for it (NOT BAD MOUTH PEOPLE AND CLUBS) #DO IT THE RIGHT WAY!

Chris Wojciechowski

Agreed. Asking is perfectly fine. But John in NO WAY deserved to be badouthed because Sarah is quick to jumpnthe trigger and start insinuating he's a misogynist.

Chris Wojciechowski

excuse the typos, call phone.

Shrimp Boat Captain

I think woj looks like susan b anthony

Jamie Mosier

Hahahahahahahahaha

Chris Wojciechowski

Don't make me take your eye Zigfried. I could use one!

Sarah DeMar

a. I 100% agree with Paul. accounting for entry fee differential is necessary for accuracy. B. I agree with Mark; distribution of added cash is at the TDs discretion, but he nust be willing to state how it will be distributed before the event so that players may plan properly. c. commonly accept ... more

a. I 100% agree with Paul. accounting for entry fee differential is necessary for accuracy. B. I agree with Mark; distribution of added cash is at the TDs discretion, but he nust be willing to state how it will be distributed before the event so that players may plan properly. c. commonly accepted labels must be developed and utilized to convey the distribution of added cash. It seems the terms women friendly, women neutral, and women unfriendly are not acceptable or not able to be understood properly. 3 new terms must be developedfor use in communication. d. a protocol should be developed to convey necessary information if requesting that information is not acceptable on disc golf scene without unconcerned parties participating with inflammatory nonsense.

Sarah DeMar

it just occurred to me why some may be confused over my concern the payouts, so i will clarify: In last years Motor City Open women represented 23% of the field. With $500 added cash and the lower entry fee variable of 18% (44 is 82% of $54) a women-neutral allocation of ac would have been $94. t ... more

it just occurred to me why some may be confused over my concern the payouts, so i will clarify: In last years Motor City Open women represented 23% of the field. With $500 added cash and the lower entry fee variable of 18% (44 is 82% of $54) a women-neutral allocation of ac would have been $94. they received $40. $40 is only 8% of $500, yet women represented 23% of the field. this is why i was concerned that mccg runs women unfriendly tournaments (disclaimer: again, not name calling simply using labels which may be changed once more popular labels are suggested.)

John Minicuci

You should run tournaments yourself...

Jay B

dey took r jobs!!! LOL

John Minicuci

Have fun out there Brent!

Mark Stephens

Yep.hal way there. Will be close to filling by Friday I bet. Don't wait!!

brent moreno

think it will b filled by Thursday

Chris Leo

20 with two ghost groups. We are eliminating some of the holes.

Shrimp Boat Captain

why put ghost holes when you have open non used holes. it makes play slow anf choppy. just saying from experience.

Chris Leo

After I posted that, I was thinking the exact same thing. We may just do that thank you for brining it up.

Chris Leo

Yes Addison Oaks will be closed for casual play.

Joe 'Blaze' Meldrum

Thanks for the update making things happen. I'm sure it wasn't easy. See ya Sunday

doug granby

why cant it be stony and Addison that be so amazing. i have always thought that would be a good day of disc golf compassioncomp

doug granby

damn Swype. competition ahhhhh

Chris Leo

It would be Doug, but if people are paying to get into both parks, $10, and then $2 to play Stony not to mention they are a little but of a drive from one another. Not much, but certainly longer then River Bends to Stony or vice versa.

Samantha Yanssens

yeah I forgot addison charges so much if you dont have a pass. Im down to start a donation pot for people that are unable to carpool in with someone that has a pass. IDK I feel last year having the change between the courses is what made me like this tournament so much. Also at the same time i imag ... more

yeah I forgot addison charges so much if you dont have a pass. Im down to start a donation pot for people that are unable to carpool in with someone that has a pass. IDK I feel last year having the change between the courses is what made me like this tournament so much. Also at the same time i imagine even just having to move the event is hassle enough. Chris you already do so much Im sorry to even protest man see you out there.

doug granby

haha sry this was ment from me yeah I forgot addison charges so much if you dont have a pass. Im down to start a donation pot for people that are unable to carpool in with someone that has a pass. IDK I feel last year having the change between the courses is what made me like this tournament so much ... more

haha sry this was ment from me yeah I forgot addison charges so much if you dont have a pass. Im down to start a donation pot for people that are unable to carpool in with someone that has a pass. IDK I feel last year having the change between the courses is what made me like this tournament so much. Also at the same time i imagine even just having to move the event is hassle enough. Chris you already do so much Im sorry to even protest man see you out there

Jeff Bauman

Your right Doug. A tourney at Addy and Stony would be awesome!

John Minicuci

Maybe the March Mudfest might just be THAT tournament!

Chris Leo

Still two.

Michael Lee Cook

thank you Chris

Dj Hunt

Sooner you let ppl know the better I have heard its a stretch to have riverbends ready anyhow.

Darren Harper

do yourself a favor and change courses now so they and you can alter the plans, some will want to practice the new course.

Dj Hunt

Agree

Jamie Mosier

Pushi it back to 2nd week of August....

John Minicuci

Thanks DJ and Darren, we are doing the best we can. The PDGA needs to help as Addison requires insurance. I have made all of the calls and we will hopefully decide by tomorrow.

John Minicuci

Jamie, tell it to Hickory Hills, I am done with that discussion!

John Minicuci

Stony is still an option but a few things have to be done on their end as well. I will know what they say tomorrow as well...

Darren Harper

I heard BEVERLY was in the running?!

John Minicuci

The parking at Beverly may be a small issue...

John Minicuci

If Stony gets used, the morning round would be holes 1 - 18. We may be able to do something different in the afternoon. We will know by Wednesday. If River Bends cannot cut the grass due the flood we will need to switch to plan C.

Joe 'Blaze' Meldrum

What's plan C?

John Minicuci

Different course?

Joe 'Blaze' Meldrum

Lol got ya

Jay B

We need a nice guy disc golfer that owns a landscape company to step up and be willing to volunteer for some occasional maintenance when needed...

Douglas "Fresh" Watson

Buy some goats. They're cheaper on gas and you can sell them for meat afterwards. They might climb on the baskets, though.

John Minicuci

Joe, I wish I could give you better news but the course was pretty wet today. A mower was not going to make it through so we will re-evaluate early next week.

Joe 'Blaze' Meldrum

Ok thanks for the update John.

John Minicuci

Not at this tournament. The MCCG's Featured Event, The Motor City Open, will have berths for State Finals.